Old, Bad Habits!

by **Promise** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:23 pm

Good/bad news…I still await my fall on Guiness (buckskin mare that I ride), but wait – I almost got there today.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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Anyways, she was energetic today. Even when we cantered on her favourite lead, she was fast. And even my instructor was just like - slow down!!! But it was all good…until…<o:p></o:p>
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On her ever-so-hated lead (on left rein) she bucked. As soon as I asked, BUCK. And it wasn’t small one.<o:p></o:p>
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So than I tried it again right up at the next corner
(almost without hesitation! what was i thinking?), asked again… another even bigger buck.<o:p></o:p>
(People told me that her hind legs were really high in the air...lol OMG and you shouldve seen ME!)<o:p></o:p>
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And naturally, I didn’t want to do it again. Like I *just* managed to stay on. My instructor made me do it again. I’m not even sure if I got her to canter (it just felt like she went into a faster trot) but my instructor said she cantered 2 strides.<o:p></o:p>
And than we cantered again on her oh-so-favorite lead again & as usual, she was really good. (no bucks of course)
But I am SO dissapointed! (and not to mention...shocked!)<o:p></o:p>
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So…old habits are reappearing. She hasn’t bucked in like over half a yr & now this. She’s like a totally different horse on the other lead!<o:p></o:p>
Now I really don’t know what to think of her anymore. (I still love her though!)<o:p></o:p>
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I really wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that the weathers changing/days are getting longer/shes in heat, etc.<o:p></o:p>
(I’m not displeasing her in any way – she’s perfect on the other lead and fine in the months before as well.)
 
You finally made it to the end <IMG src="smileys/smiley1.gif" border="0"> Thanks for reading.

by **DurhamJumper** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:34 pm

It is very possible it is just the weather, my laid back guy was nipping and becoming tratorial the other day, just because its getting warm.
When it warms up especially TB get what they call hot, and have more energy then usual.
Just think of it as a little kid who gets to go outside in the spring, they go full tilt

by **Marley** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:34 pm

How old is your horse? I do know that in time it will change. My horse Trouble who is now 7 and cantering either way like a pro was once something like your horse.
As a youngster 2 to 3 (he was big so we broke him early and I would ride him for 10 minutes 3 times a week), he was great, he would canter like a hunter either way.
At between 3 and 4 we began to train with a coach for dressage. Although they loved him at the 3 shows I went to (Basic 1), Trouble began to hate it. He also didnt or was really hard to get ontothe correct lead to the right.
OUr canters began to get worse. He would kick out when ever I asked him to canter especially on the right lead. He was horrible. He didnt like the pressure of being made to go into a frame. At the end of that year we gave him time off.
I then let him canter on a long loose rein all winter, real relaxed. Well now he canters like a pro. My coach tells me all the time that people in the hunter show circuit would die for his canter as it is slow, but long strides and his head carriage is perfect for a hunter.
I did not get this overnight. It has taken me 3 years of working on it. Take your time---you too will get there one day. Never thought I would but I did.
A girl at our barn is also experiencing what you are and she too will eventually get it with patience, persistance and practice.
Have fun,
Susan

by **Sodapoppers** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:39 pm

Glad you stayed on! Way to go. You are becomming a great rider with stable legs and a great seat. I had the misfortune of watching my sister come off today. She was riding one of the newer horses at our barn (he's been there a week, 2nd lesson) and he was so worked up. They did some trot and it kept spooking over nothing. Finally we all walked and i was on the biggest horse i have ever ridden (he's 17.2 <IMG src="smileys/smiley3.gif" border="0">) and when we started to trot again her horse bucked and caught her COMPLETELY off gaurd...she looked like she was going to stay on then as soon as he hit the ground he threw another and off she went. So here i am across the ring by them thinking <IMG src="smileys/smiley3.gif" border="0"> great now this humongous thing is going to do it too....but, thankfully he didn't.
Must have been the spring weather, they were all feeling good today!

by **Judy F** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 6:53 pm

I suspect you're right on both counts: spring and heat. A lot of mares have an intense early Feb heat. If she's having cramps, she'll be less than happy to canter on the crampy side. My first horse really liked to gallop. I rode her out in the field on the first nice day and she pulled a wheelie/bolt and buck on me. First time she managed to get me off in 6 years but it was a doozie!

by **loki** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:24 pm

 I know what you are going through promise. My mare used to do the same. It was because she was stiff in her right shoulder. She used to scare me as well because as you said they aren't small bucks. But then i guess i got used to it and i just laughed  every time she'd do it. she's stopped now which is good and i hope yours stops too. Although it certainly keeps you on your toes! lol. 

by **Promise** » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:08 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone!
DJ - lol she is always nipping at everyone...whatever the weather! But your TB theory might be applied in this situation as well...she might just be part TB...who knows. (ive been told she looks like one...and acts like one as well sometimes)
Marley - Oh shes OLD. So I don't think time could change with her case, and for all i know (Which is nothing, i know almost nothing about her history) she couldve had this habit her whole life. But I'm glad to hear that Trouble is so good at cantering on both leads now. Youve really done an awesome job with him huh!
SP - Thanks! Im still a little surprised that I just managed to stay on...I almost came off on both times...esp the second! And sorry to hear about what happened to your sister, I hope she is OK. Hehe...it must be the weather than! And 17.2 SP! That mustve been a big change for you, im sure it was fun though!
JudyF - Thanks for the info...I guess there isnt much I can do about her being in heat and the weather (spring) huh. And its probably not just the cramp side, shes always hated that lead, and even if she didnt buck on it, she'd be a pain about it (ex. wrong lead, rush trot, cut corners, etc).
Loki - if they were smaller, i might be able to laugh, haha its a little hard...when my butt is practically over my head lol (almost anyways)!! For such a little mare...she sure can buck. Ive ridden bigger horses that dont even have such a buck as her! (or never gave me such a big piece of it anyways)

Website · by **sugar** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:16 am

Maybe she needs to be more flexible on that side.  Horses usually have a "side" that they prefer.  Hidden injury is also a possiblility.
Why not try some flexing exercises and making her lunge to strengthen that side.  It may well simply hurt when you make her do it and the rest of the ride is testy because she is anticipating pain. 
She may have a hidden injury.  Who's to say she didn't wipe out while horsing around during turnout with no one around to see and no one the wiser.
Also, check the saddle, it may have a hidden flaw that is affecting her.
I suspect that, because she is rewarding you with a pleasant ride on the one lead and punishing you with a bad ride on the other, she is desparately trying to train you to ride on her "favourite" lead.  That is your clue that it is probably physical! 
Even though horses likely think we are total morons, they still faithfully try to train us and communicate their problems to us.
jmho<edited><editID>sugar</editID><editDate>38389.3450925926</editDate></edited>

by **donutndianna** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:19 am

this sounds like a common problem, if your mare has always picked up the other lead while being ridden, she has had more chance to develop the muscles to sustain that canter lead and not the left. Chances are if you observe her out in a paddock she will take both leads whenever she feels like it but with the added weight of the rider which throws a horse off balance, it is harder for her. I think it would be helpful to really concentrate on making sure she is truly balanced in the trot on the left rein and do tons of balanced transitions, keeping the bend before,during and after the transitions, over time she will build up more strength on that side and be better able to pick up that lead while under saddle. Pay special attention to any old habits that you might have pertaining to position. I am training a TB now that never picked up his left lead canter, would only take the right lead, have his head cocked to the outside, bulging shoulder inside and just struggle to get around the circle . After only 4 training sessions, following the above, He has reliably picked up the left lead canter doing 4 or 5 transitions between trot and canter on a circle. I have to be thinking all the time, and really prepare him or else he falls into his old habit, but I am sure that it is starting to sink in that it is more comfortable for him. Stick with it, you can do it!JavaScript:AddSmileyIcon('<img border="0" src="smileys/smiley17.gif" border="0">')

by **newbie** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:26 am

Durham Jumper wrote: "When it warms up especially TB get what they call hot, and have more energy then usual."
Please tell me they get over this phase - my TB was a real jerk yesterday to the point that I was advised against riding him at all - I am a beginner.  Please, please tell me they get used to the weather.  I want my old Silver back...

by **Azalee** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:50 am

[QUOTE=newbie]
Please tell me they get over this phase - my TB was a real jerk yesterday to the point that I was advised against riding him at all - I am a beginner.  Please, please tell me they get used to the weather.  I want my old Silver back...
[/QUOTE]
What was Silver doing in particular?  I wouldn't worry; they get used to it!  Unfortunately, in my TB's case, that means reverting back to banana slug mode. <IMG src="smileys/smiley24.gif" border="0">

by **Gemina** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:53 am

My old and I mean old guy who should know better reverted to his old ways yesterday by jogging and tossing all the way back from our ride. He was 15 when I got him and had been used for Western racing shows and goodness know what else. He does not like to use his right lead either. Many horses are one sided....guess I should have spent time working him on the right side but somehow it didn't seem to matter since I was mainly trail riding so I let him be. However, I did dissuade him from jogging or so I thought! Horses! Don't get discouraged. It would be boring if you horse did everything by the book. <img border="0" src="smileys/smiley5.gif" border="0">

by **newbie** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:55 am

Azalee wrote: "What was Silver doing in particular?  I wouldn't worry; they get used to it!  Unfortunately, in my TB's case, that means reverting back to banana slug mode. "
Banana slug mode?  mmmmm...I could use some of that...  Silver is the "Bouncing, Tightly Spun, Rubber Band"  Let's just say he only has two speeds...FAST, and FASTER.

by **Sodapoppers** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:16 am

Promise's horse is actually a lesson horse so it's not as easy for her to go check saddle fit and ding individualized work with her as it is for us <IMG src="smileys/smiley6.gif" border="0">
Promise - yes, HUGE indeed!! Someone said draft x's are like a couch. I couldn't agree more. I have never had such a successful sitting trot in my entire life. And do you know what else? Except for teh smoother trot he felt VERY much like dream through the barrel, just longer than dream is in that area. That really helped me to relax because i could almost imagine i was on dream, though dream is faster to respond because i already know his buttons. Another great thing was that he didn't *feel* 17.2 I think that is partly becasue he's mostly upper body instead of leg. Hey, I can handle big horses like that! <IMG src="smileys/smiley2.gif" border="0"> I actually enjoyed myself...i just really hope harvey turns out to be 1/2 as comfy to sit on<IMG src="smileys/smiley4.gif" border="0">

by **Sodapoppers** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:19 am

No worries Newbie. I would advise though that if you don't feel comfortable riding because he's so high energy n a particular day, then follow your gut instints and don't.  I rode Dream outside last may for the first time. Nice weather, first time outside in months, and he was sore to boot ( i was riding on vet orders to try and 'work it out') I was unsure but figured i'd get on and he'd settle down...well yea, he settled down, after I came off - and not too gracefully either. I ended up cracking 2 ribs and i was off for a couple weeks. So follow your gut instinct and just work on things like ground work and respect instead<IMG src="smileys/smiley2.gif" border="0">.

by **newbie** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 11:56 am

Sodapoppers; good advice indeed.  My coach wants me to ride some calmer steeds for my lessons - ofcourse that is so frustrating for me as I want to ride my horse - is it possible that I am making him misbehave more because he knows he can get away with it with me?  Is it a good idea for me not to ride him until I am a better rider?

by **Sodapoppers** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:04 pm

A good schoolie is worth their weight in gold. It's quite possible silver has your number. God knows Dream did with me for the longest time. If on an ongoing basis you are uncomfortable with riding him because he's acting up, my perscription (again, only from personal experience) would be to get off and do the ground work with him and establish a trusting respectful relationship while still riding others and improving your skills. But that's a fine line to cross. I havn't seen you ride or with your horse so i can't say he dosn't respect you or he is taking advantage of you or he is testing you or doing anything other than feeling good with the warmer weather <IMG src="smileys/smiley2.gif" border="0">.
But as i said i came to the same obstacle with dream. I used to cry everytime i watched another girl (who was helping me) ride him because he would do everything and anything for her and as soon as i got on he would test me and i gave up. I found going back to the groundwork really helped and when i got on him again 3 months later what a change. "Mom has legs and she knows how to use them! <IMG src="smileys/smiley3.gif" border="0">" What it came down to is that he just didn't respect me and he had my #. The way to fix that with him was on the ground.

by **newbie** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:07 pm

Sodapoppers - what sort of ground work do you suggest?  I did the parelli thing with him and he seems to respond to that - but there is only so much you can do...isn't there?

by **Sodapoppers** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:14 pm

Nope - there are many many exercises. Parelli is only one of the ground work methods. But, imo,  you can never do enough. I still do ground work with dream and yes it's the same old exercises after a time. In a herd though a horse is constantly rallying for the top place. So ground work is not something that is done for a week and then left alone. Like dieting vs. losing and keeping weight off. It's a life style change <IMG src="smileys/smiley4.gif" border="0">
Can I ask where you learned the parelli games from? book, video, clinic, seminar, watching someone, etc? it's not significant, i'm just nosey <IMG src="smileys/smiley9.gif" border="0">
I wanted to add one of the most important exercises (which isn't really an exercise, more of a consistancy thing) is do NOT let your horse into your space. Damn it harvey does this to me every single day like 1000000000 times when i am with her. She wants to be right in lap all the time. For example, if you have him in the cross ties and he is an arms length away (everyone has their own personal space)  I move her back. The preferred reaction is what I have with dream; if he is in the cross ties and his bum is against one wall for whatever reason, I should be able to step between that horse and the wall and have him automatically move over and give me space. One of the best things i found with the methods i followed is my body language. If i my body language says i am calm and passive i can come closer than my 1 arm length and he will not back away. The second my body language shows aggression and dominance (such as standing up straight) i can approach him and he back away. <edited><editID>Sodapoppers</editID><editDate>38389.5127199074</editDate></edited>

by **newbie** » Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:35 pm

Sodapoppers: I took Silver to a parelli clinic - he was very good.  Nothing there that was a problem - he walked on top of the tarp, backed away when I wanted him behind me, let me move him over easily...but I will spend time with him repeating this stuff if that's what it takes.  What other methods can I look into?

Old, Bad Habits!

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