Young and sound mare = broodmare or competition horse???

[TrueColours]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN class=postbody#ed_cl#This question was posed over on another forum that I belong to, and the question was: #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="90%" align=center border=0#ed_cl##ed_op#TBODY#ed_cl##ed_op#TR#ed_cl##ed_op#TD#ed_cl#

#ed_op#/TD#ed_cl##ed_op#/TR#ed_cl##ed_op#TR#ed_cl##ed_op#TD class=quote#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#What are the benefits (are there any) of turning a youngish sound mare into a broodmare? A lot of broodmares it seems are retired competition horses who have shown for quite a few years.. some are horses who were being shown but got injured so found a new job. #ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#I guess the more specific question is, if you have a young mare who can be sold to continue competing or kept as a broodmare, which would you do? What factors would affect your decision? #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#

#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#/TD#ed_cl##ed_op#/TR#ed_cl##ed_op#/TBODY#ed_cl##ed_op#/TABLE#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN class=postbody#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#I responded with: #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="90%" align=center border=0#ed_cl##ed_op#TBODY#ed_cl##ed_op#TR#ed_cl##ed_op#TD#ed_cl#

#ed_op#/TD#ed_cl##ed_op#/TR#ed_cl##ed_op#TR#ed_cl##ed_op#TD class=quote#ed_cl#hmmm ... very good question! #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#For me, in my *niche* breeding program, the mares can generate FAR greater income as broodmares than they can as riding/show horses. I wont get any more for the resultant foals if the mare was champion hunter at 10 "A" shows than if she sat in my backyard and didnt show at one single show ... #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#I *AM* thinking seriously of sending both Faux Finish and Whatever to the track though, to see how well they can run plus I love the racing end of things as well ... #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#For FF - its important for me in the overall grand scheme of things with Guaranteed Gold, to see if I can promote him as a viable sire of race horses. THATS a long road to hoe, so it important that I get started SOMETIME on that particular path! #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#As Whatever will be bred to GG, part of the same program will also be to see if I can prove her as a race horse, so her foals by GG will have some worth (hopefully!) in the racing end of things! #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#Plus - if you do have a horse that has some speed and ability and use your head, you can generate some pretty decent revenues from a good race horse which would be a nice change to have the horses pay for themselves! #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#So for me - the youngsters will go to line shows as weanlings, yearlings and 2 year olds, will get broke as late 2 year olds or early 3 year olds and we will see then what we have. Some will be for sale and some we will keep ... #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#Yes - some of the babies may well end up in the show ring - again - to promote GG and get them out in the hunter or jumper or event venues ... #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#We just bought (for a client in the barn) 3 REALLY nice young (2 coming 3, 3 coming 4 and 4 coming 5) TB mares that will be added to their pool of 5 other mares that are all sound and tall and beautiful movers all to breed to GG in 2006. Yes - they could ALL be sold as green prospects, but since that particular market is NOT very healthy right now, why would you??? #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#Again - in our very narrow, *niche* market, the mares are worth more in foal, then they are as green broke young prospects. What someone does with them after they buy them and foal them out is entirely their business, but the reality is they are worth more in foal than walk, trot, cantering around a ring and jumping a few fences ... #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#

#ed_op#/TD#ed_cl##ed_op#/TR#ed_cl##ed_op#/TBODY#ed_cl##ed_op#/TABLE#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN class=postbody#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#How do you all feel about this? Retiring perfectly sound, able and willing young mares into the broodmare ranks rather than riding and competing them? #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#Yes - after several years of showing and MANY thousands spent on training and showing them they will probably be worth FAR more than the young mare in foal is, but looking at a simple "R.O.E." (Return on Investment) principle, if you can get $12,000 for this young mare in foal and $3500.00 for her as a green broke prospect, what would YOU do?#ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I can only speak for myself here. I breed a mare or two a year, and only have 7 stalls, so space is always a factor. What I did last year was breed my 3 yo to foal at 4, so she has now had a foal, and not being a racehorse, it really doesn't matter that she didn't work too hard, we got her started last fall, worked her lightly until December (no indoor), laid her off until August (foal born in June), and she has been in light work again since. I considered breeding her again, but finances dictated no. She has a great mind and is easy to work with. However, she is the last foal from my first horse and isn't for sale. I would love to get her leased out to get started on a career, but have had very little interest, just one person who might be interested come February.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Now my 3 yo I didn't breed this year, she doesn't have a great mind and while physically I wasn't concerned, with her hyper brain I decided she would be better to breed at 4 when she grows up a bit more, and we had originally been planning on keeping her as a broodmare, providing she doesn't throw her temperament  I feel she will have more value as a broodmare than a riding horse. Now life being what it is and things don't always go according to plan, I haven't been able to move either of the ones I had hoped to, and may be out of work come February she may have to go. I'll then be faced with another decision - which mare to sell. There's no point in having broodmares you can't afford to breed, and with one foal on the way for next year someone has to go. That's a whole different discussion though!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#My coach has a lovely Reipo mare he has never shown. She'll be having her 3rd foal this spring.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I don't have any problem with someone wanting to turn a mare straight into a broodmare, a lot of nice competition mares don't get to pass their genetics on unless the owner can afford ET. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Whatever floats your boat! #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Ideally, without factors such as enough stalls or finances I would like to breed a mare at 3, get her started on a career at 4, and then decide whether to sell or add to the broodmare herd, that decision of course is based on my above mentioned factors and the condition of the existing broodmares.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Trufflemaker]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Thinking/2.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Looks like a no-brainer to me, although I think of my horse more in terms of a relationship and less in terms of ROI! #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Leena]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I can too only speak for myself.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I bred my mare at 4; she is a great mind, very good conformation and easy to work. This was my criteria; now she is ready to work and being pregnant had a very positive effect on her maturity.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I have heard that many breeders does breed their mare at 3 and 4 and then with selling the foal they get back a part of their investment. Also, they use that time to back and train lightly.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#For me, I wanted to know if my mare would be a good broadmare, if she had enough milk, if she was good with her foal. Because, she might not be bred before long, at least, I know, she is a very good one now.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Leena#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[cadence]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I do both - breed them young and then continue to school them in between foals.  While they're young, schooling isn't so very important and you have lots of time to make it up.  However, it is harder and sometimes riskier to breed an older maiden mare.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[graciespook]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Its a European thing..breed them young and start them late when they mature. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#It depends on what market you're catering to. For instance, someone who wants to train and sell for a profit, isn't interested in breeding. They use their talents and skills to turn the $2000 horse into a $10000 with training. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#But the breeder has a different spin on it.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#You have to look at the space factor, and experience. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[babytigger]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#i'd say that it really all depends on what your interests are - for me - she's be competition horse, as i've no interest or real knowledge of breeding....but that's me. for someone who knows about both- it may be a tougher decision.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#i think GS is right in that breeding them young & training them when they are older is a ueropean idea, but it makes sense...afterall, you can't do that much with them when they are young, but then again....what would you do with the baby from an unproven broodmare & un unproven competition horse?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Kobau]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#i usually start and compete them for a couple years to see if they have abilities that i want to pass on, along with riding temperments.. and then when they are about 5 i consider breeding them. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[goldendryad]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I like Kobau's method best. Wait til the horse proves itself before you bred it. You can't ride a set of papers and I would personally wait til I know the mare's capabilities before I tried to duplicate her. Especially temperment, because the mare influences the foal's temperment a bit more than the stud, especially dominancy.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#That and if there is a flaw in the horse's confirmation/build it will come up after a few years work.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm not saying any of you here breed indiscriminately, I know none of you do that. But there is a definate horse overpopulation out there. When it comes to breeding, either breed for personal use (a foal you plan to keep) or else pick a really worthwhile breeding that you can find a home for, in my opinion. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[zooka]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I agree with Kobau start them to see if they do have traits that you would want to pass on.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Oldnag]

Kobau's view seems to make the most sense to me.

When I first read the topic I was wondering, "why not do both.." However, I admit to having no experience with breeding, but I do think that the more "jobs" a horse has or experiences the better in the long run.

Eventually a brood mare's career comes to an end. Could be in their teens or when they are 25. In any event, I see many older mares available and that is all they have ever known. They have either never been ridden or haven't been saddled up in 15 or 20 yrs.

So unless a horse owner can ensure a much deserved retirement and wants to be the last owner of a mare then diversity is the key to finding a new life for the mare when her breeding days are over.

Now that I re-read the original post I see what the real question is. Not being in the business it is too difficult to answer - I have no clue what I would do.

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Personally I would rather not wait, although I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad idea to do so, you just don't want to wait too long because breeding older maidens doesn't always work out so well. I would rather get one foal out of the way, even if I don't breed the mare again until later. You have a pretty good idea of what the mare's capabilities and temperament are like by the time she's 3 or 4, whether you show her or not.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#To use the example of my coach's Reipo mare again, the fact that she hasn't been shown doesn't make her any less of a horse, she has good conformation, movement and is very rideable - the fact that she hasn't been competed doesn't change that.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Either way works!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Personally I would rather not wait, although I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad idea to do so, you just don't want to wait too long because breeding older maidens doesn't always work out so well. I would rather get one foal out of the way, even if I don't breed the mare again until later. You have a pretty good idea of what the mare's capabilities and temperament are like by the time she's 3 or 4, whether you show her or not.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#To use the example of my coach's Reipo mare again, the fact that she hasn't been shown doesn't make her any less of a horse, she has good conformation, movement and is very rideable - the fact that she hasn't been competed doesn't change that.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Either way works!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#