buy, train, then sell?

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buy, train, then sell?

Postby Shoal » Thu May 12, 2005 1:20 pm

Hi everyone,
I wanted to ask anyone who trains horses for resale if is it's as profitable as it is made out to be?

My coach and I were talking about how to maintain my riding through having kids, and still try to have a family life. My husband see's it as a waist of money...so we were trying to think of ways I could continue to ride and it not be such a waist of money!

My coach mentioned purchasing a cheap horse (with the *right stuff*) that can be trained by the pro at our stable (my cost) and then in a year turn around and sell.
She said she has horses she bought for a few thousand and now are going for 35,000 in the U.S market for eventing adult amateurs.

The risk factors are, spending $800+ a month on my lessons and training, paying for the pro to show the horse seriously for one year and in the end not sell for the expected price or incur an injury!


I'm new to this idea, I've helped train the horses for resale I've just never taken the step towards being the one to fork out the cash.
I don't want to rush into anything and loose a lot of money.


Any advice?
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Postby chenders01 » Thu May 12, 2005 2:14 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#In my experience, most people who I know that buy resale projects, train them themselves versus paying a trainer to train them.  If you train it yourself, it's only your *time* that you're spending, not any money.  If you pay a trainer to train it, you have to get all that money back on the purchase price of the horse, otherwise you haven't made any profit.  Sounds like a really big gamble to me.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#What about buying a horse and then finding a part-boarder?  That way, you can still ride as time permits but won't be stuck footing the entire bill to keep the horse.  Just a thought...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Pony Hunter » Thu May 12, 2005 2:59 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" color=#c080ff#ed_cl#My coach use to do that but she ended up putting too much money and training into them to make a profit. You will have to put a bit of money into this horse considering the costs of training,vet,farrier,board,tack and the accual price of the horse. Then to make a profit you are going to have ask a fair doller for it. Then the buyers will want a vet check and if it doesnt pass you are going to have to lower the price. And if it doesnt sell right away you will still be paying board on it till it sells. But do what you want thats just my opion. #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Happy/2.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Dee22 » Thu May 12, 2005 3:00 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm not too familiar with the idea either but I know my old coach used to buy TB's off the track, re-train and than re-sell them for quite a larger profit than he bought them for. The difference is that he was the one doing the training and he was turning them around in a few months vs. the year your speaking of. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I would be iffy about paying a trainer, that can become quite expensive, plus show fees, trailering costs and board costs... if the horse doesn't turn out to be as great as you originally thought, you may still turn around a larger profit but you'll have some hefty bills to pay and maybe not make any money at all in the end?#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#I agree with Chenders, why not buy a horse and part board it out to someone? That way it's not *as* much money as footing the whole bill? #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Shoal » Thu May 12, 2005 3:13 pm

I had thought about that too!
I don't think I could train the horse to have a $30,000 profit, but you never know!

I couldn't afford to stable the horse at Dana's just for lessons. I would fork out the cash because it would have a bigger reward and I would have more free time.

I would love to train horses, I guess I just don't have that much confidence that I can do it!
Plus....I would get soo attached to it if i'm the only one riding. I don't think the hubby would want me at the stable everynight riding either!
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Postby Shoal » Thu May 12, 2005 3:15 pm

How hard is it to find a good part-boarder that will last??
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Postby Ruth » Thu May 12, 2005 3:21 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Unless you are extremely lucky I don't think there's anyway you can make money on a resale project if you have to pay a trainer. Sooo much can go wrong that even if you are doing the training yourself it's still a gamble. Remember the easiest way to make a small fortune with horses is to start out with a large one!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I do remember one horse that the coach I had at the time recommended my parents buy for me. We could have had him for $3500. The girl that bought him sold him a year later for I think $10,000 ish. 5 years later I saw him for sale in COTH and they were asking $30,000US. So it does happen. However the last resale horse I bought I lost $1200 on and that's not counting the 6 months worth of board!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Dee22 » Thu May 12, 2005 3:26 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#You don't necessarily have to have the horse FULLY trained and sell it for $30,000. My old coach would take a horse he got cheap from the track, put a couple months work on him, get him quiet and jumping some small courses, maybe some lead changes and sell him as a baby green hunter for $10 - $15,000. BUT he also had a barn full of students and their horses that he coached/trained so loosing a bit on a horse wasn't a big deal to him.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I've never leased my horse out before but I guess finding someone depends... I know some people at my barn have been part boarding horses for a looong time. Two that I know of, part boarded the same horse for 2 years before getting their own horses.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Shoal » Thu May 12, 2005 3:28 pm

I had that funny feeling in my gut!
this is why I come to you guys...you are my level headed resources! Hee, hee.

I would never jump into something like this. It is big bucks and I have this little person in the back of my mind telling me....don't go there! I had heard stories about people owing my coach thousands and thousands of dollars because they had big dreams and it didn't pan out and they were left with the debt!
Me and my husband don't need that. Thanks guys you've really helped!
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Postby Dee22 » Thu May 12, 2005 3:34 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I sold my last horse 2 years after I bought him for double what I bought him for.... but I certainly didn't make any money on him LOL... just on board alone I paid *just* over double what I bought him for.... that's not including vet fees, farrier fees, shots etc. #ed_op#BR#ed_cl#I personally think, to make money re-training and selling you would have to have a few on the go, train them yourself and have quite a fast turn over time.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Ruth » Thu May 12, 2005 4:23 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#You also need contacts. As in knowing lots of people who are looking for horses, not the kind you put in your eyes.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Shoal » Fri May 13, 2005 10:34 am

LOL....contacts! hee, hee.
Dana was going to take care of the sale for 10%. She goes to Florida every year and trained with one of the top U.S. Eventing Olympian's...I forget the ladies name! So she's knows a lot of people and is very well known in the eventing world. The Pro who would be training the horse is going for his three *** this year.

Like I said, it was suggested, but I don't think I'm willing to risk my savings on a gamble.
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Postby Patricia » Fri May 13, 2005 11:52 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#There are not many cheap horse in the world that after a year's training they are flipped for $35K....Especially if someone else is doing the training.  It ONLY works if it is YOU who is doing the training and you own your own facility.  Hence NO board to pay.  It doesn't sound like something you can do.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Get yourself a nice fun horse and possibly your trainer may be allowed to use the horse infrequently for lesson for a reduced board or she may have someone to part board who will also ride with her as a student.  I would consider those options.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Shoal » Fri May 13, 2005 12:43 pm

Thanks for all the heads up guys!

I figured I wouldn't make much money once you start to calculate the costs:
Training Board -$10,000 yr.
Showing Costs - $2,000 yr.
Vet, Ferrier- $$$$$$ depends
Cost to buy the horse - $3,000 -$ 8,000 ????

Well there we are already up to $20,000!

I was curious. I wanted to know if my gut (which was telling it wouldn't work) was right.

I think the ideal would be to find a *fun* horse to train and get a part boarder!
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Postby Rio Roulette » Sat May 14, 2005 8:06 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I know a woman whose daughter put herself through university buying and flipping horses.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The way she made it work was: look for real bargains, don't buy too young, look past poor conditioning, own your own barn+truck+trailer, don't get attached to them, do your own training, be ok with selling them still green, make sure you look after feet and coat, live in a very horsey area, be a good negotiator and marketer.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#It can work, but you have to really be driven and reduce your overhead.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby ~Cnigh~ » Sun May 15, 2005 6:49 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#438059 size=4#ed_cl#If you think about it. #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#438059 size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#438059 size=4#ed_cl#Its and win/win situation for your coach and a loosing proposition for you.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#438059 size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#438059 size=4#ed_cl#Your coach gets a prospect without having it cost her/him a dime.  Doesn't have to pay for farrier or vetting or and showing expenses.  Gets 10,000 training board free and clear and then probably 15% of the re-sell price (35000 * .15 = $5250).  #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#438059 size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#438059 size=4#ed_cl#This happened to a friend of a friend.  This guy would do anything to please his coach.  HE really wanted to invest in/buy a warmblood mare of great to excellent quality to start a breeding farm (guy has lots of $$$$).  So the coach takes him horse shopping.  Of course every mare that they look at is unsuitable (coach set up viewings) and then she takes him to see a very very impressive looking high level dressage GELDING.  Guess which horse he came home with and guess WHO rides him!?!  THE COACH!!!!  The guy can't ride him at all and this was a very very expensive horse. #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#438059 size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#438059 size=4#ed_cl#My suggestion to make the deal better for you Shoal, would be to see if your coach will go into a partenership with you on the horse.  You both pay 50/50 on purchase price, farrier, vetting, insurance etc.  You pay regular board and she puts in the training (her cost/time).  Split showing costs and then 50/50 the re-sell price.  This way the coach has more motivation to make sure the deal goes well and doesn't take 2 -3 years to accomplish.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
To ride or not to ride................?
What a stupid question!!!
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...

Postby *Giddy Up* » Sun May 15, 2005 7:40 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#This is a risky business...and I think you have to be somewhat skilled in the ways of horse business.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I think if you were going to do this, you'd have to buy something cheap, like an OTTB and train it yourself, and not give your coach the 10% selling fee. You could do it on a smaller scale...ie. buy an OTTB for under 3K and sell for 10K. However, you need to make sure you have the time and will make back the money spent on board. If you only want the horse for a few months, then try looking for a cheap QH. QH's are generally easier to break, where as a TB takes more time, especially off the track. I personally dont' think you can well break a TB in just a few months. You could techincally just put w/t/c and small course on it, then sell green...but it is risky. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#There is the attachment factor as well. I know someone who bought a horse from an auction for the meat packers price that she had intended to get as a project to re-sell for more- well she STILL has this same horse years later- he turned out to be a real gem. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
*God forbid I go to any heaven where there are no horses*
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Postby Shoal » Mon May 16, 2005 11:07 am

Cnigh- Good suggestion!
I don't think she would go for it, and i've decided to not do the train/sell thing unless i'm doing it myself!
thanks again for all the good advice and heads up!
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Postby ~Cnigh~ » Mon May 16, 2005 2:41 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#438059 size=4#ed_cl#Nice avatar Shoal!  #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#438059 size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#438059 size=4#ed_cl#To bad that you don'y think your coach would go in on it with you.  Horses are a risky business.  Thats why I just have mine for fun.  I'm not sure if its cause I'm cheap or just too cautious, but even buying a lottery ticket seems like wasting too much money - lol!  I would DIE if a $30,000 horse investment went bad - I just don't have the nerve for it.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#438059 size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#438059 size=4#ed_cl#Guess that's why I'll never be rich. #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#438059 size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#438059 size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#438059 size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#438059 size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
To ride or not to ride................?
What a stupid question!!!
~Cnigh~
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