The Stud Game

[PerfectAngel]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#SP, it sounds like you are looknig for something exactly like the pony that I have now...we do a bit of gaming, she can jump the moon (for her height anyways) and she is a lot of fun to do new things with (ie: go to new places for trail rides, etc.) I am not sure what her breeding is, but she definitely has some QH in there, as well as some welsh pony...if I were to breed her (remember, she's 14hh) I would look for a smaller morgan or a connemara. I would be looking for kind of the same things as you SP....the all-round horse!! I personally would chuck the TB because I find that they don't do well in anything western (unless it's an appendix, then they do OK) and I can't stand the chance of having the typical TB head.....lol. I know that they are not all like that, and I am not trying to knock them, but it would not be my personal pick....there's my 0.02$ again!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The reason I am against the Arab is because the phenotype is too different from Harvey's, your odds of getting something that is not very nice at all are increased. I don't think Soda is starting a breeding program, just wanting to breed a foal for herself from a beloved mare. Imagine a Belgian head on an Arab neck with a drafty body and  skinny Arab legs! #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#But I would want something with more blood than not - Trakehners, if you can find a line that will add a little length of neck, are nice, I like Trakehners for non-traditional crosses as they do have a higher Arab and TB influence than other warmbloods. Check out Prinz Habicht, he stands in Sunderland and is competing PSG. Pssst, he's black too! Watch the length of neck on Trakehners though, some are good, some lines are quite short-necked.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I would not go QH, a lot of QH's are straight in the shoulder, and I doubt you will improve on length of neck either.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#If you can check out a potential stallion's parents and grandparents too - I can tell you from personal experience that sometimes you see the grandparents more in a foal than the parents! #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#See Soda? Ruth is looking out for ya! She found you a good stallion PLSU he is black! Whoo hoo! Doesn't mean you'll get a black foal though. But black is a dominent base color so you never know. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#If you are super interested in getting a specific color I would recommend researching color. Becuase there are certain base colors and then there are created colors. A created color would not have as much influence on the color outcome as a base color would. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#That why when you want to breed pinto or paint or whatever, people usually go back and look at the colors going generations back. Because chances are, if your paint stallion is a first generation paint and you breed it to a TB you will not get paint color. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#But if you have a paint stallion that has the same color for generations back, you will have a better chance of getting a color because you know that that paint gene is dominent. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I don't know a lot about color genetics, but I think the chances when breeding a black to a chestnut are 50/50. We know Harvey has at least one chestnut parent, and Prinz Habicht's sire is Carino who is also black, black runs in that bloodline, but I don't know about his dam. The owner's I'm sure could tell you!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I can't decide what color Benji is. When he was first born I thought dark liver chestnut, but now his mane and tail are turning black so he may be a bay, but if he is I've never seen a bay in this particular shade, his body color really is like a dark liver. He has a chestnut father who is by a chestnut, the dam is bay - she is by a grey and out of a liver chestnut.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Sodapoppers]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#0060bf#ed_cl#Do you have any pics of Benji Ruth? I know Harvey has changed color since I first got her too. At first she was like a palamino but now is a lot darker. #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#0060bf#ed_cl#I love color genetics Xena - in fact I love genetics period, I alwasy did well at it in biology. The code for black is Ee, and homozygous black is EE. The color for chestnut is ee.  So therefore, with a homozygous stud who can *only* pass on black gene, the foal will likely be black. There is also the agouti gene that chestnuts can carry and hide. If Harvey for example has this gene but breeds to a homozygous black, the chances then are 50% black, and 50% bay for the foal. #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#0060bf#ed_cl#If it is just a regular black (Ee) then there's a 1/3 chance of black, 1/3 chance of chestnut, and a 1/3 chance of bay *if* she carries the agouti gene. #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#0060bf#ed_cl#Now say if Harvey breeds to a horse like GG who has a modified color (Cremello) she can ONLY produce a palamino. There is no other option.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#0060bf#ed_cl#Benji could be a black chestnut or bay with his parent's color combo #ed_op#IMG src="/richedit/smileys/confused.gif"#ed_cl# LOL I know that dosn't help you much.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#A true black to a chestnut would be a bay ... unless like soda said the black sire is homozygeuos#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I think all bays and chestnuts carry the agouti gene... it has something to do with the red color. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[lola s]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff#ed_cl#I'm certainly not a genetic expert but there has to be more to it.  My QH's parents were dark chesnut and bay.  He is a true black.  Never fades and not one brown hair on him. #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Sodapoppers]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#0060bf#ed_cl#Lola that is totally possible. Bay is a black horse with the agouti modifier. Your non fading black would be an Ee - the big E from the bay parent and teh little e from the chestnut.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[goldendryad]

Ruth - Is Benji part Morgan? I find Morgans tend to have really
interesting coat colours in terms of chestnuts and browns. I've seen so
many chestnut Morgans that aren't a typical chestnut colour, they are
dark liver, or brown or really rich mahogany chestnut. Take my bf's
mare Rain, for instance. She's a very reddish bay, her son out of a
chestnut Arabian stud was a rich mahogany colour....really dark, and
his mane and tail were unique...from a distance they looked flaxen, but
up close they were a mixture of brown, chestnut, black and flaxen
hairs. I've never seen anything like it.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
Horse coat colour genetics are very complex, I don't think scientist
have totally figured them out yet. They have a basic understanding of
coat colour but no clue about how white markings are passed on.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
LolaS - Maybe it was like Soda said? Or maybe one parent was a really
dark bay and the other threw in a recessive black gene? Hmmmm.....or
maybe...teehee....they got the sire mixed up. Does the AQHA require DNA?#ed_op#br#ed_cl#

[lola s]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff#ed_cl#OMG!  Did you just call my baby `illegitimate'?!?!?!#ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Teasing/5.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff#ed_cl#Actually, he's very much his father's son.  I just found it odd since he had two full siblings and they were both chesnuts.  His father wasn't that dark of a bay either.  #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Sodapoppers]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#0060bf#ed_cl#LOL!! The possibilities between the chestnut and bay would have been 1/3 black, 1/3 bay, 1/3 chestnut. #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Actually I was always under the understanding that white markings were just a birth mark type thing, like people having moles. Horses dont generally have the same white markings as their parents or really any other horse. Of course you can have 2 bay horses with stars or blazes but they will not be exactly identical. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I always thought it would be cool to breed xena and get a buckskin and call it Sisco like the horse in Dances With Wolves... I always thought he was such a beautiful horse for some reason.... I think I looked into it before and I would need a palomino or cremello or something... of course for this I would probly want a TB and that could get tricky with tbs having bay as their most common color.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[babytigger]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I always thought it would be cool to breed xena and get a buckskin and call it Sisco like the horse in Dances With Wolves... I always thought he was such a beautiful horse for some reason.... I think I looked into it before and I would need a palomino or cremello or something... of course for this I would probly want a TB and that could get tricky with tbs having bay as their most common color.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#well then xena - you'd need to visit Guaranteed Gold then wouldn't you? LOL!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#lol yes... I guess he would be a good choice then eh? I would have to verify the color though, what I would get.... #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#my poor iron maiden (xenas showname) wouldnt be a maiden anymore though lol... #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I don't have any recent photos of Benj, but there are some in the Photo Gallery of when he was 3 weeks old.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#GD - he is a grand total of 1/8 Morgan. He most resembles his grandmother who is at least 1/2 Morgan - she is so Morgan looking you can't tell what else might be in there, but she doesn't have papers so I couldn't tell you if she's pure or half Morgan, if she's pure then he'd be 1/4 Morgan. Both his sire and grandmother have the bald face that he has.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#My coach bred his true black mare to a chestnut stallion and got a black. Same stallion bred to his bay mare has given him chestnut twice.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#