Dressage Saddles

[Littlegreymare]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl#My coach and I have come to the conclusion that I need a dressage saddle. Well it would be obvious, being as she is a dressage coach, that I would have a dressage saddle. But alas! I do not. Instead, I have two close contacts, of the same make. One has knee rolls, the other does not. Essentially they are the same saddle, and they both let (or make?) my leg slip forward unless I have my stirrups at an unreasonably short length.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl#So when I desperately need to use my lower leg, it is resting on my one ponys elbow. Yes, her elbow. Obviously my leg is near ineffective, and leg aids are useless.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl#So hence the idea that I should replace one of my beloved CC's with a Dressage saddle. But where to start? I am not a dressage diva, the closest I've ever come to being one is wearing white breeches, while showing a white Arab at schooling shows, and entering the mini dressage test. (The white breeches were to match the horse, not for the dressage portion of the schooling shows)#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl#For those of you with dressage knowledge...what type of saddle would you recommend for a wider mount? Both my ponies are on the wide side, and although I would ideally like it to fit Jubie perfectly(the younger/taller one), it also has to fit the wider/shorter Cass. I'm leaning towards the used end because my initial glancing at new dressage saddles is frightening! I'm hoping to spend under $1000?#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl#I do not want anything synthetic...so what are some names of saddles that I should look out for?#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl#I would eventually like to be eventing, would it be wise to consider an eventing saddle instead and sell both of my CC's?#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl#With the new saddle rule, would I be able to show above Primary with an eventing saddle?#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl#Decisions decisions!#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Sodapoppers]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#0060bf#ed_cl#I have a Barnsby Raven (dressage saddle) that I quite like. My favorite thing about it is the wide channel - dream has a wide back bone and that was the biggest obstacle in finding a saddle to fit him. Chisholm, who is a dressage coach, rode in it and really enjoyed it. They are super comfy and put you in a good position. #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#0060bf#ed_cl#You could get an AP geared towards dressage but suitable for small / minimal jump work such as the Raven AP  (i'm using this as an example since i am already on the barnsby page now anyways) The VSD GP is also recommended for that purpose. I've never ridden in the raven or vsd ap though. AWSgurl has a VSD AP, so she may have some input on it for the dressage to jumper work. I've only had experience with my Barnsby dressage, so that's all I'll give input on! Are you near Bakers at all? They always have a whole bunch of saddles, and you can take them on trial before buying as well. #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#This is the Raven Ap -->#ed_op#A href="http://www.barnsby.com/html/Product_details.asp?Procat=3&ProID=20"#ed_cl##ed_op#IMG id=Picture10 height=117 alt=RAVEN src="http://www.barnsby.com/assets/images/The%20Raven%20(gp%20saddle).jpg" width=120 border=0#ed_cl##ed_op#/A#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[cadence]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#If you need 1 saddle to fit multiple horses, I suggest a Bates adjustable.  While Bates also makes Wintec which is synthetic, they also make several all-leather saddles.  My Han/TB gelding is extremely hard to fit being very wide under the tree and a high TB wither wrapped around with very powerful shoulders, plus he lifts his rib cage considerably when we ride, so the Bates saddle was the one for him, plus it is so easy to change the gullet wider or smaller to suit him as he grew taller and bigger or for another horse.  I personally ride in a Bates Collegiate.  Very comfortable and it puts you in a correct and effective position.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Best to get a saddler-fitter out and try all the various saddles you can afford and get the best one for your horses and for you. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Trufflemaker]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#If you need one saddle to fit several horses, you might want to consider a treeless saddle like the Ansur. They are not cheap, but you can buy used ones on eBay. Apparently you can get them on trial. They mould themselves to the horse's back, so are super super comfortable. And they are literally "one size fits all." Expect to pay good $$ for one though. I think the website is #ed_op#A href="http://www.ansur.com"#ed_cl#www.ansur.com#ed_op#/A#ed_cl# .#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[mdfa]

It's: http://www.ansursaddle.com

[draftdriver]

I've heard good and bad about the Ansur. For some horses, it can make their back sore because the rider's seat bones put too much pressure on the horse's back. In a treed saddle, the horse's back is somewhat protected from this. I suggest if you want to try one, get it on a long trial, not just an overnighter. Also, if you can rent one of those special saddle-fitting gel pads, you will be able to see whether any saddle you try causes pressure points.

I've heard good things about the Bates interchangeable gullet system, but I'd tend to go with the flocked rather than the air panels.

My own dressage saddle is a Crosby Wembley (no longer available, I think). Not deep, no knee rolls to speak of, semi-cutback, and it fit my wide mare well.

Yes, you will need a strictly dressage saddle to show above Primary.

[Chisholm]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Go the wintec/bates route, that's the best solution for what you need.  And you can interchange the trees depending on the horse.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[horsemad!]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The Bates should work for you, but new it is over double what you hoped to spend.  You might want to look at the Wintecs... they're the synthetic version of the Bates - if you can get past the fact that they're synthetic.  I tried the Bates dressage saddles (both the Isabelle and the Caprilli) and found they were too deep/tight for my liking, but your butt is considerably smaller than mine and your thigh considerably shorter, so that shouldn't be a problem.    The Collegiate has also gone to the interchangeable gullet system on some of their saddles and their price point is quite a bit less than the Bates.  Bates and Collegiate - for the record - are two different makes of saddles, both marketed in North America by Weatherbeeta USA if I'm not mistaken. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Pony Hunter]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Wintecs are #ed_op#U#ed_cl#synthetic #ed_op#/U#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#U#ed_cl##ed_op#/U#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#My coach Fiona has a nice Stubben dressage saddle. I dont really like dressage saddles that much. I find that they put me in a chair seat. Might be hard to find a saddle that has wide tree. Most have a medium tree. Anyways good luck finding a saddle!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Morgan1981]

I agree that in order to save money it would be and option to go with a Wintec or Bates although I personally have my concerns especially with the Wintec as I am more familiar with those saddles. The only problem with them is that they are "throw away saddles". I can not be restuffed like a leather quality saddle. In my opinion I would suggest that you invest in a nice used quality saddle that will have many years left and can be adjusted to fit your horse and you "next" horses to come. As you go up the levels you will find that the Wintec will no longer be suitable and it's life span is not nearly as long.

Try the Barnsby Canter as it comes in a variety of widths.

Some other quality saddle makers to look out for when shopping for used saddles are Stubben, Passier, Anky, KN, Keiffer, and my favorite Shutheise (good luck finding one...last ones were made pover 20 years ago).

I picked up a Swiss made Stubben about 10 years ago used for $800 and I'm still using it. I would guess it's about 30 years old now. Bought a Shutheise last fall for $900 and it's roughly 25 years old and in excellent condition.

If I were you I would opt for a used quality saddle rather then a cheap new one. You and your horse will notice the difference.

If you want to ride two different horses in the same saddle ahve a saddle fitter look at the saddle on both horses so he/she can make adjustments to suit both. You amy need to use a gel pad/wither pad/half pad/etc...in order for it to fit both horses.

Don;t be cheap with your saddle...This is your horses back that will suffer in the long run.

[Keetee]

I have tried the Bates and I hated the feel of it plus the widest
gullet available was not even close to fitting my horse.  I have
two Barnsbys, an AVG and a Kanter.  Both are very comfortable and
they come wide enough.  I also have an old Stubben Siegfried and
although I find stubbens tend to put me in a chair seat, my Siegfried
does seem to fit pretty much any horse I've tried it on well
enough.  If you get a saddle that fits the wider horse well and
fits the other horse ok, you might be able to pad it when riding the
narrower one.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#

[Sodapoppers]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#0060bf#ed_cl#The Kanter is a nice saddle too I would have to say be wary about saddle with interchangable gullets. Too many seem to have the misconception that because you can change the gullet size, it will fit all types of horses. I had an older wintec which i hated...very narrow channels, though i've heard that they have addressed this problem since. I've sat in a couple of Bates, though i did not find it fit me properly so i didn't bother trying it on my horses or riding in it #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[cadence]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#No, mine is Bates Collegiate, it carries the Bate insignia and came with Bates documentation.  This one is wool flocked, not air panels.  I also have Bates Isabelle but on my big guy, Isabelle rocks too much and the Collegiate sits better.  I prefer to sit in the deep Isabelle but Collegiate is a close second. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Littlegreymare]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl#Wow! What a wealth of information! Thanks #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl#I am extremely against synthetic, specifically for the reasons described above. I want a saddle that has a re-sale value, as well as one that will last a LONG time. Synthetics just aren't there. And whether it would fit the ponies properly or not, I have yet to feel comfortable in a Wintec or similar. They just don't seem to cut it.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl#I'm also more of a traditionalist, so I'm still pretty skeptical about the interchangable gullets.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl#I am definately going to buy a used but well taken care of saddle rather than new, the prices on new just blew me away. I've had excellent luck finding nice used a/p's and cc's, so I was hoping I would have the same luck with a dressage.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl#I'd also like to add that both the ponies are wide and do both require a wider saddle, it's just the smaller one has *no* withers. I'm currently switching back and forth with both their saddles with good results - for them, not me :p#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl#I've just started my search and I've printed off the advice on here to take along!#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#668f5a size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[horsemad!]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#If someone is looking to save money, Morgan1981, I'm sure they wouldn't choose a Bates.  Bates is not a "throw away saddle" and doesn't come with a throw away price tag... not at all!   The Bates is a good quality saddle that fits my horses well.  I would hope, should it need repair in the future, that a good saddler would be able to work with it and possibly even replace the CAIR with wool panels if necessary.  I'm happy with my Bates AP for hacking, but prefer my Paramount dressage saddle for any serious schoooling.  This is a saddle that I plan on having around for a good long time.   #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Good luck on your quest, LGM.  I'm sure you'll be able to find a suitable used dressage saddle in your price range.   Sadly, with my big horses and my own hard to fit body, there weren't a lot of suitable used saddles for me to choose from!  #ed_op#IMG src="http://www.forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Happy/4.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#well... I like Stubbens the best... OF COURSE! haha... anyways, you can get excellent used Stubben dressage saddles anywhere for under 1000$... They will always hold their value excellent as long as they are cared for. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Only with Stubbens they are more made for european warmblood type horses so you woul dhave to find a really really wide one. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#There is a dealer who is quite good from Germany, #ed_op#A href="http://www.saddles-online.de"#ed_cl#www.saddles-online.de#ed_op#/A#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#My dressage saddle is a Dominus dressage saddle, its not a very "big" brand but I found this particular saddle to be excellent quality and really balanced for my horse... I had a hard time fitting her. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I know you said no synthetic, but the wintec Isabell Werth saddle is really nice, Ive sat in it before... It looks great too and it has the adjustable tree.... I personally dont like bates though, any that I have sat in have been too bulky and not very balanced. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#And wether you ride in a close contact or dressage saddle your leg position shouldnt matter, I rode in a close contact for a long time.... The saddle doesnt make your leg position for you, even if you have a dressage saddle you should not be relying on the knee roll to put your leg in place, the judge will see that and mark you down on rider position. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Littlegreymare]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#668f5a#ed_cl#x&j - Good point about the saddle not affecting my leg position, but instead of the knee rolls (one of mine has them and the other does not), it's the actual shape and seat of the saddle.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#668f5a#ed_cl#I cannot physically sit deep in the saddle, without my legs sitting forward. I can pull them back underneath me, but with the design of these two saddles (Same brand and size), it puts my body in a very compromising position.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#668f5a#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#668f5a#ed_cl#Perhaps it's just the fact that they are CC's because I am most comfortable with a shorter stirrup and a more forward and hunter type body position? Not condusive to Dressage training #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#668f5a#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#668f5a#ed_cl#I'm looking at a couple Stubbens this weekend, fingers crossed I can find a fit! #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The best economy(ish) dressage saddle I ever rode in was a Miller Klimke. You could probably find a used one of those for $1,000. It's a knock-off of the Passier Grand Gilbert, and is really quite a nice saddle. I have 2 saddles that are opposite ends of the scale, one is a custom Schleese Jane Savoie with air panels and the other is an original Wintec dressage that I paid $25 for! I like the Wintec just fine for my large (fat) ponies who don't do serious work, but I wouldn't show in it. I also did find that with the previous show horse we improved leaps and bounds when we changed from a synthetic saddle to the Klimke.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Morgan1981]

Just to clarify Horsemad I was talking about Wintecs as throw away saddles. Like I said before I am not very familiar with the Bates saddles.

[High Hopes]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I currently have a Klimke right now as an in between saddle as I have a youngin.  It is a good saddle that is put together well and very comfy, so it just might be worth a try?  I know I am going to have to move up 'shortly', within a year but did not want to fork over the 'big' bucks right from the start.  I also have had a Mark Todd in the past and it was very comfy and fit most horseys as well.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#