Trot-Walk Transition w/o loosing impulsion

[horsecrazy333]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So I've been working on my Trot - walk transitions for our show this weekend.  Emma is so forward moving at the trot that I find we wind up dying into the walk transition because I'm concentrating so hard at getting her back.  Any suggestions of how to get a better walk transition.  I'm thinking about dropping the seat and squeezing her up into the bridle but I must be doing something wrong.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Any suggestions would be great.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Foxie]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I sometimes have the same issue. My problem is not enough leg and sometimes too much hand!! #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I've learned to jiggle the outside rein alittle to signal that a change is coming to the horse, slow down my posting or sit trot, squeeze the reins at the same time keeping my leg on and driving with my seat into the bridle. Don't use too much hand. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Just keep practicing. You guys will get there! #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Good Luck at the show!!#ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Word_Greetings/7.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[draftdriver]

Prepare several strides ahead by giving little half-halts on the outside rein. When you want the transition, breathe out, simultaneously squeezing both reins slightly. Keep your legs on. AS SOON AS you feel that hind leg step under for the walk, release your hands (move them forward) to allow the horse to move forward in the walk. Apply alternate leg aids to keep the walk going, and don't forget to relax through your pelvis and hips, to allow the horse to swing under you.

I know it sounds like a lot to do, but once you get the hang of it, it all happens almost automatically.

[Patricia]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#First off is she is tanking around at a VERY forward trot try working on your rthymn first.  Post slower and stay close to the saddle--don't pump...otherwise your seat is a driving seat.  Do lots of walk/trot transitions with sitting heavier and half halting before.  You really should be half halting before you ask them to do anything.  It lets them know something is coming up.  It means pay attention...I am going to ask you to trot or canter or halt...It keeps them off the forehand if done correctly and keeps them sharp to the aids. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I may be at that same show...I have not had much practice...our horse has been off.  He is fine he knows his stuff...it is ME I have to worry about...I am NOT riding fit...not to many rides under my belt.  If I think that this is just like a practice ride and stay relaxed...things should go well.  That is what having an indoor over the winter was for...now we are home and just coasting along and falling back on our winter training.  So far it is working.  We may trailer to the indoor for one practice session for my son...Good Luck!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[horsecrazy333]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thanks DD.  I tend to forget to breath in general #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Patricia.  It's not that she tanks around, it just there is so much power from behind I haven't found that happy medium between powering into the walk versus restricting her into it and dying out.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm going to practice practice practice.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Hope to see you Sunday.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Pony Hunter]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Those are some good tips, I'll give some of them a try when I ride Pepper this evening.Our transitions are not too bad its just the very slow walk that I need to fix. Im showing this weekend too. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#If you cant get a decent trot-walk transition, then yes she is basically tanking around. That means she is on the forhand.... #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#You need to get her trot more round and loose and develope a rythm. Make her trot more light I guess... #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Ive gone through the same things with xena. I pretty much had to throw my reins away to a certain degree because it was my fault, I was holding her and she was speeding around with no impulsion. So without my rein for her to lean on we works on our transitions... We also do a big warm up in the walk and do bending. Someone on here suggested a good walk excersize and it helps Xena relax alot. After the bending I work her on a forward trot pretty long and low kind of before I collect her more. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Since ive been doing that, with just a few "reminder" half halts she is becoming much more independant with her head and neck and she actually has a rythm. Your horse should naturally start coming round when they are working from behind properly. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#And the horse should be walking from your seat, so you need to practice letting go with the hand and asking with your seat. It may not be perfect but it will eventually come... #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Anyways good luck at the show!!!!!!!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#draftdriver's explanation was what I would say, I'll just add into that what helped my horse as well because he used to run through my seat aids and ignore me, was to ask him once nicely and if I didn't get any reaction, or too slow of one ( he is the kind of guy who doesn't like to do things promptly) was to kick him into a strong half-halt. He doesn't run through my seat near as much now.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[annie]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I am going to add a couple of cents to this, because I am having a similar problem with my horse.  He does have a propensity for the forehand, but he doesn't tank.  What he does do is hollow his back and  fall into walk instead of rocking back and sitting into walk.  This is a weakness on his part.  This is not to suggest that a down transition doesn't have to be ridden correctly - it does.  Rather what it means is that there are a number of building blocks that are required to get that balanced, through transition that Emma may not have.  She is actually built very similarily to the guy I ride, and like him she came off a hunter carreer.  I know my horse until this spring was not working on the bit at all.  You could get him there, but he wasn't physically able to maintain it.  Now he can go through a lesson and spend 90% of the ride in a relaxed round frame.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So now we have started addressing the issue of down transitions.  He is not built like a warmblood and he certainly doesn't have the correct musculature just sitting there waiting to be ridden properly.  He has to build strength and balance.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#All of this advice has been good, but Horsecrazy, it may just take time and work.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Try this exercise as you warm up:  go large at the trot, when you get to B or E half halt in a somewhat exagerated way.  Hold it until you feel the horse stepping under for walk (maybe 3 steps) and then push her forward in trot again (just close your legs).  It can really help to engage the back end.  It can be helpful to sit the trot a few strides before E or B.  Do it a few times each way.  If she is staying round through the exercise (or at least not pulling if she's not consistently round) and responding well, then you can ask her to come all the way back to walk. (See above what draftdriver said about riding the transition- it's all true).#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Morgan1981]

Annie I agree that this is a great exercise to get the horse more engaged from behind but I also want to add that you you can do this anywhere in the arena.

Once your horse gets stronger you should essentially be able to do a transition withing the (collect to near walk, or ask for a little more trot (not faster but a longer stride) anywhere in the arena. I do these types of transition all though the arena with the horse I am riding and I try do set him back or let him out at each letter in the arena. Once in a while throw in a walk transition just to switch it up. You can also do transitions within the canter which will also help the horse to come up off the forehand. Very small taps with the whip will also help to get the horse more engaged when trying to collect the trot to a near walk. Don;t stay in this collection too long or you may get stuck. When letting them out don;t push but rather softly let them out to develop a working trot.

Your horse will find this difficult at first but with patience, time and practice it will improve immensly.

Remember when setting the horse back that you ride from back to front. No pulling in the mouth but rather help the horse engage with your seat and legs. If your horse braces above the bit just keep a soft steady contact and coax them into the contact. When letting them out just slightly soften with your hands and bump the trot up ever so gently with your seat.

good luck and let us know all about your progress.

Remember patience is key. Riding a horse steadily in to the contact and over the back is a never ending battle...lol Right through to the top levels riders are constantly working on troughness and suppleness while keeping the forward, rythmical motion. Only then can we develop collection.

[annie]

Annie I agree that this is a great exercise to get the horse more engaged from behind but I also want to add that you you can do this anywhere in the arena. #ed_op#BR#ed_cl#

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I could have mentioned that!  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I find it's easy to do it on the long side the first few times because you have a lot of time to really set yourself up (ie, do a few strides of sitting trot, do your half halt) and then a lot of time to establish your forward rhythm.  It also lets you not have to worry about bending until the horse gets the idea of what you're asking for.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#That said, when you do finally start asking for the full down transition it can be easier to do it from a circle (15m or 10 if you and your horse are comfortable with it).  It forces the horse to balance herself to a certain extent, making it hard for her to tank.  Also, you can use the wall to help you in your down transition.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Morgan1981]

I would actaully find it easier to do the transition on the open side of a circle simply because if your horse fall over the outside shoulder you will be more aware. On the other hand if you are not at a level to feel that then yes I agree using the wall is easier but not always an accurate picture of what is really going on underneath you.

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#boy you guys, those big WBs arnt born with perfect pace and balance. And you certainly cant just hop on one and expect it to move perfect. WB's are hue animals and yes, they may be built more sporty for jumping or dressage but it takes a ton of work to get them that way. Just go look at a WB that has not been worked in over a year. Do you thing its perfectly muscled? Nope, WB's more than any other horse, because of their size, are in training and working constantly. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#But yes, I agree with annie that balance is building blocks... You cant just expect it to be perfect and there. Doing the transitions on circles will help the balance too. Of course on straight sides it works also, but on circles even moreso. The more transitions the better. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[horsecrazy333]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thanks guys, and Annie I'm going to try you exercise.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#It's coming and our first walk transition in our first test yesterday scored a 7 and we got the comment from the judge, lovely transition.  I was elated.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#But you are 100% right.  Is is slow steady progression!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thanks.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#btw.  Patricia, you were awesome yesterday.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#We did really well at our show yesterday and jumped almost 10% and got some really nice comments from the judge that not only gave us great things to work on, but some reassuring comments that we work well together and that we will get to our goal.  She even said, nice team with time will be great!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[annie]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#boy you guys, those big WBs arnt born with perfect pace and balance. And you certainly cant just hop on one and expect it to move perfect. WB's are hue animals and yes, they may be built more sporty for jumping or dressage but it takes a ton of work to get them that way. Just go look at a WB that has not been worked in over a year. Do you thing its perfectly muscled? Nope, WB's more than any other horse, because of their size, are in training and working constantly.

#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#You're putting words in my mouth.  I never said they were born with perfect pace and balance.  What I said was that they were built for the job.  Of course there are some really hideous warmbloods, but as a general rule they are bred to have the body for the task.  Emma and my guy have an uphill battle - as I mentioned they have very long backs, and they're both a little bum high (horsecrazy - not trying to pick on your very cute horse, I'm just saying this because issues like these transitions are going to be a bit harder for her).  I am actually looking back at some picks - #ed_op#A href="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/viewtopic.php?t=13093"#ed_cl#http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/viewtopic.php?t=13093#ed_op#/A#ed_cl# - and they have very similar conformation.  Xena - if you think life is hard with a properly built warmblood I think you should try riding a long backed, bum high TB! #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#This point is hardly exclusive to warmbloods.  There are TBs for whom it is much easier to do balanced transitions from behind.  There is a reason why Anky has 3 and 4 year olds who go 50x better than anything I'll ever sit on - it is their breeding.  They are bred for the quality and balance of their gaits and their ability to use their back end properly.  Yes, they need to be ridden properly, but it is just easier for them.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I have ridden horses who can do a proper downward transition staying through, and they certainly don't do it by themselves.  Given the opportunity, even the most naturally blessed horses I have ridden will do sloppy on-the-forehand, nose poked out transitions.  But there is a reason why, when asked properly they can do it in 3 tries, whereas my current horse just CAN'T.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#haha I didnt mean it in a mean way annie... I was just trying to get the point that any horse even perfect wbs need to work to get how they are... #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#And yes, I agree emma does have a very high bum which could make it alot harder for her to balance because she would more naturally be downhill. Just means work, work, work... hehe#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Foxie]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Emm is a through and through Hunter. I believe she competed for a number of years and did very well. They do great in Hunter Eq classess!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# I've ridden her once and yes she does get a little forehand heavy but she's a #ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#very#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl# nice horse. HC has done a really nice job with Emma to get her to where she is now. I believe they have only been working on dressage for about a year? And all without gagets! Some more work on transitions and stuff they'll get there! Congrats on doing well at the show HC.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I was in one of her dessage lessons...and I couldn't for the life of me remember the course!! I don't know how do you guys do it????? I'd be messing up..troting when I should be walking...walking when I should be cantering....going left when I should be going right. #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Other/5.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# I fav part was the springie(sp?) trot!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[horsecrazy333]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thanks Foxie  it's really only been since January that we've been working on Dressage so I think we've com a long way.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Let's not argue ladies.  I know it's work work work, the objective of this topic was really to get some suggestions on exercises and aids to work on the transitions, and for that I thank all of you.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I wouldn't classify Emma as being very bumb high but she is a little and quite long backed so Annie you're right it is just more work naturally.  I'm committed just wanted some other ways to work on it.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Cheers#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[annie]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#And really none of this should stop either of you for a second.  Doing dressage with her will only improve her way of going.  You just have to realise that some of the difficulty with the downward transitions may come from an inherent awkwardness.  She will get there, as will my guy, you just need to be patient and consistent.  The vast majority of horses have some conformation flaw, and one like a long back and slightly high bum is often one that can be overlooked for more important things (ie, temperament, consistency, trainability), especially since it can be improved with proper work.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Morgan1981]

We know that a conformationally challenged horse will never be competitive Grand Prix horses so we can't expect that level of collection or engagemant from behind. It is something that your horse will find very difficult but as a rider you must be able to feel when she is really trying and praise her accordingly. If you ahve only been doing dressage with her sinse January then you are only just in the beginning stages.

Unfortunately dressage is one of those things that takes years to master and doesn;t happend over night. You must chip away at it regularly. Just remember not to put empty miles on your horse. Get it done and lay off. Too many people drive their horses into the ground for no reason...usually it is a rider fault and the horse is punished...makes me sick. It is much more beneficail to ride your horse 6 days a week for 30mins then 5 days a week for 45mins.

now back on topic...another good exercise is trot poles or caveletties inthe trot. Start with them spread at a working trot and them move them loser together and work on amore collected trot. Move them out and change her stride accordingly. If your horse falls on the forhand from trot to walk it is likely that she does it from canter to trot aswell and you may not be bale to feel it as much as the canter is a more uphill gait. Try longing her with the sidereins very low so she can reach over her back. Lots of transitions canter trot canter trot walk trot...etc... If you can get your hands on some sliding side reins (or viennna sidereins) they are miraculous.

Make sure that when you are asking for the downward transition that you aren't hanging on the reins. You must push from behid while restricting with your seat in a downward transition. From seat and legs to a restricting hand not a pulling hand. Right before the downward motion you must soften so the horse reaches over her back in search for the contact. From my experience if you hang on the mouth of a heavy horse that pulls you are going to end up with a horse that drops like an anchor...no fun! Or they suck back like a turtle.