Prizes at shows - do the competitors want this?

[Shirley G]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#We have held two Trillium dressage shows at Centaur so far this year.  At each show, we give out out prizes for the highest score obtained by an Open, AA & Junior rider, plus champion ribbons for the Day & Freestyle.  At the first show, one of the winners was a no-show at the time of award presentation.  At the second show, two winners were no shows (one of the prizes was a gorgeous horse sculpture).  I know the show day is long, tiring and hot, but still ...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#My question to all of you is this:  do competitors want prizes and awards?  Or is it just not that important?  I must say it is A LOT of work to gather all the sponsors, and it would make my life much easier to not go through that exercise every year.  It is also a really nice gesture (and expensive) for the sponsors to go out of their way to support our sport.  I am thankful that none of the above sponsors were present for the award ceremony - that would have been extremely embarassing, not to say rude to them. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[annie]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I didn't attend your show on Saturday, so I am just speculating, but here are my thoughts.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I think that first of all you have to realise that Saturday was one of the hottest days of the year.  Sticking around at a show is not in the best interest of any horse or their health on a day like that.  There are also health concerns to riders such as heat stroke, sunburns, and even headaches.  I am surprised you would take it so personally.  It doesn't seem rude to me.  I have never heard of any obligation or custom for riders to stick around when their classes are done.   #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Second of all, I think what attracts people to a show is not so much the prizes, but the general atmosphere of the show.  If you resent going to the extra trouble maybe it would be better to forgo those prizes and expend the energy on making the day enjoyable for all.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Guineapigger]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Although I do LOVE most things about showing dressage vs. hunter (this is my first official year of switchover), the whole "ribbon presentation" aspect of the dressage shows is kind of flat.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The easy answer is - give out money as prizes for all classes.  No show = no money.  People will show up.  I do think it is strange that trillium hunter if you have even a half decent day you can cover your entries, but trillium dressage there is no prize money at all.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#A cheaper solution - if you can publish ride times, can you  publish a time for "awards ceremony" as well, with a list of prizes to make it seem worthwhile?  I know at the last show, I was way over yonder with noone to hold my horse when ribbons were presented, so I could not be there in time (someone picked up for me).  I saw a prize table, so I assume there were awards but I don't know who got them or for what, or who the sponsors were.   If I had a specific time, I could have made an effort to be there.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Also, they seem to pin a whole jumble of classes together, at the end of a division, not each class - why not pin the class, right after it is done, with a little ceremony in the ring as in hunter?  If you tied the better awards to the first class of the day, and pinned right after the class, people would likely still be there for their second class and would therefore be around to pick up.  Maybe not logical from a "who deserves the award" point of view, but if you want to make sure gifts are received and appreciated, something to try.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I do miss "the jog" from hunter, as well as the whole attitude that you hang out for your division and watch everyone go, get to know your competition, set up your tent and lawnchairs and spectate - your division is almost like a family, complete with members you like and those you think are buttheads!!  So far at the dressage shows I have been to, no one seems to watch anyone go unless they are from the same barn, I know the name of the "horse to beat" but would not know it to see it.  It is sort of sad.  The awards are definitely part of this atmosphere that I miss.  It is really difficult to even be a spectator if you have your horse with you because you have to stay so far from the ring.  #ed_op#IMG src="/richedit/smileys/cry.gif"#ed_cl#.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Chisholm]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Not showing up for prizes is common in dressage, it's not that they don't want the prizes.  It's that when you ride at 8am and say 11am and the presentations aren't till 4pm, why in the world would I hang around or come back if I live 2 hours away.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#But if I am not going to be there and there is a chance I might be getting something I usually try and make an arrangement either for someone else to pick it up or arrange with the show secretary to pick it up later or have it sent if small enough.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#But in the case of the heat over the weekend maybe those people didn't even think to make arrangements because it was so hot they were just focused on getting their horses home. So maybe someone should call them and see.  I would think as a show organizer that making that little effort might encourage those people to show at your show again.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Morgan1981]

Hi Shirley...I think you can probably blame the no shows on the heat.

Personally I'm not really interested in the prizes but that I am able to complete goals for myself ie. first step: get on trailer, second step: minimal spooking, third step: no jumping in or out of ring. If I happen to bring home a prize I guess i would rather recieve money. Entries are expensive and every little thing helps. That being said it is always nice to come home with a nice cooler...I still have the one I won at your show.

[zooka]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#If you do have prizes, why not make 2 presentations.  1 at lunch hour and then one at the end of the show.  As Chisholm says some people are done really early and do not want to stick around for ribbon presentations.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Another thing to do is skip the presenting and hand out money or gift certificate with the ribbons when people come to get their class test.  An address can be with it so that people could write a thank you note to the sponsor if they wanted to.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Judy F]

At Spiritwood, we have eliminated ribbon presentations completely, giving out ribbons with the tests when the class is posted and ditto for Championships as soon as the championship is declared. We often have to inform some of the winners that they did win, especially the 'HIGH SCORE OF THE DAY" and junior champion, but they are happy to drop by and pick up their prizes later in the week.

We did the same thing at the Primay Classic on Saturday at the National Nepean Equestrian Park. Only one horse/rider combo missed their prizes when their coach rushed them home without checking the ribbon/prize table. In spite of the heat and a major thunderstorm that whipped through during the last class, everyone was happy with the results and the prizes were welcomed by all.

Bottom line: skip the ribbon presentation ceremony. Or hold it unmounted away from the competition ring after each class or division. Show will run smoother and you won't risk your insurance status by having a horse freak out and dump its rider during the victory gallop. (Seen it happen, more than once ).

[draftdriver]

Another explanation: Some people rely on commercial transporters, or someone else at their barn, to trailer them to shows. When the trailer leaves to go home, as a horse owner, I'd go with the horse rather than wait for ribbon/prize presentations. I think Chis has a good idea about getting someone else to pick up the ribbons, but maybe these championship results aren't even available until really late in the day, well after some people have had to leave, so they might not even know they had won.

[Pony Hunter]

#ed_op#P#ed_cl#

#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#We did the same thing at the Primay Classic on Saturday at the National Nepean Equestrian Park. Only one horse/rider combo missed their prizes when their coach rushed them home without checking the ribbon/prize table. In spite of the heat and a major thunderstorm that whipped through during the last class, everyone was happy with the results and the prizes were welcomed by all.#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#:

#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#Hey I was there too! I forgot to get my reserve champ ribbon so they just are going to send it to me in the mail.#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I agree, if someone fdrives for 2 hours to your show, rides at 8-11 and the presentation isnt until the end then yes, those people will leave early... #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I think the best way ive seen presentations done is to do presentations after each division. It only takes 5-10 minutes... say you do your senior and junior training division, after... hand out the awards! Then those people can leave and give their horses a break... It really is difficult for horses to stand around in the heat all day just to wait for a prize...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[mallard]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#We here at QSLB also just give ribbons attached to the test. Sometimes we have a prize, and that is also handed out when they get the test.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#We also offer the competitor $1 if they choose not to take the ribbon....some people have way too many ribbons & all they want is the test.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#We often do draws for prizes randomly during the day.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Starting last year all of our high score of the day ribbons & prizes are given out at our year end awards banquet. When I send out the inviations to the banquet I enclose a little note to all winners saying  "You are eligible for a year end award. We hope you can attend our ceremony"#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[EC]

#ed_op#div#ed_cl# I do think it is strange that trillium
hunter if you have even a half decent day you can cover your
entries, but trillium dressage there is no prize money at
all.  #ed_op#/div#ed_cl#

#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
First off, I'm glad to hear that dressage has lured someone else over from the hunter/jumpers!#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
Hope you're having fun. #ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
I know what you mean about the prize money being more prevalent at the
h/j shows - but I think the biggest difference is cost. Within a 1 hour
period, you can fit in a heck of a lot of jumping rounds compared to
dressage tests. So during the course of a day, you can accept more
entries for a h/j show than a dressage show. More entries = more money
which means you have more to offer as prize money. #ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
It would be interesting to hear from those organizers who have run both
types of shows to see if this is true - but that's my theory. #ed_op#img src="richedit/smileys/Happy/14.gif"#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Also, they seem to pin a whole jumble of classes together, at the end of a division, not each class - why not pin the class, right after it is done, with a little ceremony in the ring as in hunter?  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#

#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#How often do they have the scores calculated immediately after the test? In my experience I've had to wait 2+ hours to even see the part of the class posted in some cases. That's the problem, the fact it takes awhile to plug everyone's scores into the calculator.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I do like the prizes, but would not stick around if I had to wait hours. Plus, as dd suggested I'm not trailering myself, and I know the guys that I use would not want to hang around for a presentation.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Keetee]

Hi Shirley,#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
Excellent show on Sunday once again!  I'm sorry I wasn't there to
pick up my award at the last show, my father had checked the scores and
said there was one higher, not realizing it was a junior, so I didn't
think I was going to win anything.  As for Sunday's show, I
checked the scores myself so I don't think I missed anything.  I
had a look at the prize table and I was kicking myself for missing out
last time!#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
I understand the effort of getting sponsors and the need to have
pictures, etc.  From helping with the Festival I found that people
love getting prizes, they will even fight to get a cheap pair of bell
boots but only if they are around, most won't wait for a whole
day.  I know the high score prizes have to wait until the end of
the day but have you considered having one for high score from
training/first and then one for high score second/third/fourth so that
you can hand one out earlier in the day when the training/first level
riders are still there and another in the afternoon for the higher
levels?  Having ridden the higher levels, these riders would
probably appreciate this since it is really tough to beat training
level for a high score!  At the Festival we had to chase a rider
who won a really beautiful cooler to get a picture for a sponsor - we
ended up getting a picture of her at Blainville.  To be fair to
the rider, I think she wanted the cooler, she just either didn't
realize she had won or had to leave in a trailer load back to Toronto
and couldn't wait.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#

[Tabby]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I think the prizes are great and actually do add to the experience.  It is fun to walk past the prize table and have a look at the wonderful goodies they have.  But I agree with all the previous posters - the day is often way too long and there are many reasons to leave long before the class is even finished, let alone posted.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#When I lived in the states, they used to split classes.  I used to think it was dumb because nearly everyone got a ribbon - there could be 3 or 4 different training level 1 classes with 6-10 entries in each.  However, it did solve the problem of 3-4 hour classes.  I'm not suggesting that the same thing be done here, but they could split the juniors, open (and AA for trillium) into separately run classes rather than mingling them together.  In other words, all the juniors ride first, then the opens, then the AA's.  Pin the classes as soon as they become available.  If you run the entire junior division - all tests - back to back, followed by the opens and then the AA's, this will also result in a faster turnaround time for each class to get pinned as well as shorter waiting periods in between tests.  In my last show, my first test was at 8:54 am and my last was at 3:30 pm.  I was the first rider in my last test - the class wasn't finished until after 6:00 pm.  There was no way I was waiting for ribbons.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#What do you guys think about something like that?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Guineapigger]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Hmm, Ruth, I guess I have just been lucky at my few shows so far.  They seem to tally them up on the go, so you know your score almost immediately after your ride, and I have been able to review my comments from first test before riding my second.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Too bad this is not "normal" because it is pretty nice!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[pony crazy]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Shirley you have valid points.Show days are normally long ones and more often than not hot ones.I'm sure riders do appreciate the prizes,but would it not make sense to try and run the tests in order.That way you can hand out prizes to the levels once the are complete rather than having them scattered throughout the day.That would be difficult with high point and freestyle awards but at least champ and reserve for levels would be handed out.The last time I won a trophy at your show for the freestyle there were like 8 people there.I think being there for the presentations is my way of thanking sponsors,show commitee and showing sportsman-like conduct.It's respectful,and I always thank the show commitee and officials at some point during the show.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Morgan1981]

Ruth I agree with what you are saying but I can also see the problems. What happens if you are riding more then one horse in each class and you have a small class. If you seperate the divisions it wont give you much time to warm up...Shirley is awesome with that. She always allows enough time for a substantial warmup even if youare riding several horses, I do think giveing out ribbons with each test is great and I think Shirley does that (she used to anyway) but prizes are harder as the show must almost be over before presentation...I dunno...I'm stumped

[Tabby]

#ed_op#P#ed_cl#

Ruth I agree with what you are saying but I can also see the problems. What happens if you are riding more then one horse in each class and you have a small class. If you seperate the divisions it wont give you much time to warm up...Shirley is awesome with that. She always allows enough time for a substantial warmup even if youare riding several horses, I do think giveing out ribbons with each test is great and I think Shirley does that (she used to anyway) but prizes are harder as the show must almost be over before presentation...I dunno...I'm stumped

#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#No system is going to work for everyone unfortunately.  Even splitting classes into their "pinnable" groups won't help someone who is trailering with someone else in a different division (e.g. junior and AA).  But I think far more people show only one horse and it's one of the chances you take when you enter more than one horse.  Unless the class is really small - if there are 3 riders between your 2 horses, that's still 15 minutes.  #ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#As far as high score/end of day prizes, even with separate divisions, everyone in the first division of the day would know who their winner was, and only that person would have a chance at winning something at the end of the day.  They would have the choice to stick around, come back later, or arrange for someone to collect their prize.  Everybody else could go home as soon as their classes had been pinned.#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#Currently, at the shows I go to (primary), the classes have between 20 and 30 riders - a mixture of juniors and open.  The trillium show run on the same day has even more entries, but divided into 3 (jr, open and AA).  30 riders at 5 minutes a test is 150 minutes is 2.5 hours.  Longer tests are even longer.  If there are 3 groups of 10 riders each, that is only 50 minutes a class.  Since all 3 groups are being pinned separately anyway, why the need to merge them together?#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#If you go the next step - run the entire junior division - all tests - back to back, then all the the juniors will be done at the same time.  The whole division can be pinned and high score prizes awarded early in the day.  There might still be some who ride only in the first test, happen to get an early ride time and then leave, but many will still be around.  Speaking from my experience, the bulk of the competitors are in training level and there are fewer riders at 1st level and beyond so those classes will take less time.  After the juniors, run the AAs - all tests.  Same thing - pin the classes and the division.  Finally, run all the opens.  #ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#I'm not saying it's a solution for everyone - there will still be people that leave before the class is pinned and others that are stuck there the entire day.  But those people would probably leave or be stuck no matter what and many more people, including the show organizers, would benefit from splitting divisions like this.#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl# #ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[halt at X]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Having run quite a number of shows for different organizations, I can appreciate the discussion here. The solution that we had always found to work well, was to distribute prize money and prizes as the results were made available throughout the day, with LOTS of announcements throughout the day regarding the class sponsors, the class placings, and the scores. Competitors would simply pick up their prize when they picked up their test and ribbon. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#For sponsored classes, the name and contact information was given to the competitor to allow them to forward a thank-you note. You could even go the extra step of providing a thank-you card with the address already provided and a stamp already on the envelope... then the competitor simply has to fill in their note and drop it in the mail... or hand it back to the show organizer to ensure it gets to the sponsor. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The truth is that after the final ride of the day (or the final ride of the morning, in the case of noon-time ceremonies), there is a time-lag that occurs as the scores for the tests are calculated and the championships are determined. Even with the most efficient scoring system, this can take a bit of time. And at the end of a long show day (sometimes ending well into the evening hours), most people are just interested in getting on their way home. Competitors certainly do appreciate the prizes and prize money (I know I certainly do. Given the high costs involved with showing, it's nice to have a little recognition or a "drop in the bucket" to help cover some expenses), however it is not "at any cost".#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The ONLY time that I have ever required competitors to be present for a prize-giving ceremony was for a year-end Championship show (the Canadian Championships in this case)... and even then, it was quite an organizational event to try and accomodate everyone. At the end of a long show day, people are tired, horses are tired, show organizers are tired... and sponsors usually aren't even around. The only people in attendance tend to be the riders who are receiving prizes and their immediate family/group. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#