dressage rules - can anyone clarify?

[Ellie]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#After having some discussion among some dressage enthusiasts we have the following questions that I hope someone can clarify - I am sure that the answer to these are in the rule books, but as we don't have a rule book.....  H E L P#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I am only interested in how these rules apply to a dressage show!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#1. If a horse that has a passport competes at a permitted show, is the owner of the horse obligated to have the results added to the horses passport?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#2.  We have heard that if a horse & rider receives a score of 60% or over, for the same level at two or more shows, that the horse & rider combo can NOT then drop to a lower level of competition?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#3.  What happens to the level of competition for a horse that is sold?  For example, if an Grand Prix level  rider sold their competition horse to a beginner (not likely to happen, but just say they did)  could the beginner show the horse back at Training level or do they have to start closer to where  the horse has already been shown?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#1. I always do. I don't know if it's required, but I need to update our results to renew Boomer's insurance so I find it handy to keep a record. The show stamps the appropriate box and then you fill in the results yourself.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#2. I'm not sure if it's 60%, but I do know there is a rule out there like that.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#3. I believe rule 2 only applies to the combo. I know one girl who showed a horse that was a year end champion National circuit (can't remember the level) at Basic 1 & 2 Trillium. Different rider so no problem. At first level we competed against a horse that had been shown 3rd level by a different rider. Just because a horse has a superior education doesn't mean a less experienced rider will be able to bring it out of them. One of the most difficult horses I ever rode was my ex-coach's Prix St. George horse. I wouldn't have even tried to take her in a walk/trot test myself!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[*rickie*]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#1. If a horse that has a passport competes at a permitted show, is the owner of the horse obligated to have the results added to the horses passport?

#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#Yes! If you don't, then you can be disqualified from your show. Also if you end up goign to championships, you will be disqualified, if your passport is not up to date......how are they supposse to know that you really did make it there?????#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#As for the rest of the questions you asked, Ruth is right! (Way to be Ruth! #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Happy/14.gif"#ed_cl#)#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Fritz]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Hi Ellie,#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The 60% rule only applies to National level shows - meaning, if you compete at a National Show at Training Level and get 3 scores of 60% or more in that competition season, you CANNOT show Training Level at a Trillium Circuit show (in Ontario).  The rule does not apply to Trillium competitors that also show Primary - and there is no limit to how many years you can show at one level until you have been Reserve or Champion at a Championships.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Best thing is to get a copy of the rule book from EC.  Many of the rules are also available on the Cadora website if you are showing Cadora shows.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Morgan1981]

Answer to #3 question...it must be horse and rider combo. In the same show the horse can be shown at training level and fourth level by different riders up to a maximum of 4 classes per show...don;t quote me but this is what I am lead to believe...Judy F should know...

[pony crazy]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#you don't need to but scores in the passport from a permit show(if by this you mean schooling).you only need to write down scores in the passport if the show requires you have to hand it in the day of the show,normally jusut national and trillium.your assumption for question #2 is correct I believe the same applies is you are champion at two or more shows.Equine Canada changed the rule a couple years ago about down grading a horses' level.The horse's level can change with the level of the rider.My mare has shown prix st.georges but with a new rider can go training tomorrow.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Judy F]

OKAY, I'll see what my rule book says.

Regarding passports: When you hand them in to the Show Secretary at Trillium or National shows, they are inspected and stamped by the Steward. You then fill in your results in the box provided. At the next show, the same thing happens and the steward will check that your results have been filled in.
It could become critical if you qualify and enter a regional or national championship show.

The 60% and championship rules only apply to the Trillium Circuit in Ontario. If you achieve 2 or more scores at any level at a National show, you may not show at the level or lower at a Trillium show. If you are a National or Reserve Champion at a particularl level , you cannot show at that level or lower the next year. with that particular horse.

For the National Circuit, you will only run into downgrading restrictions at FEI Junior and YR levels.

The rule book is available on EC website, as long as you have an EC membership. Your password is on the stub of your EC membership card.

[Guineapigger]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Does anyone know the history / logic behind the 2 scores of +60% at National eliminating you from Trillium?  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#It just doesn't make sense to me. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The idea is supposed to be that judging is the same across all shows (i.e. if you get a 60%+ at a Trillium when judged by an EC S judge for example, then you truly earned that 60+, and would have earned it regardless of the show, National or Trillium)...RIGHT?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#(Or, do we admit that Trillium judging is designed to be softer?  How much softer?  Comments?)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So why does it matter where that 60+ was earned?  If this score means you are too good for the level, why are you only too good if you earn it at a National show?  And 60+ is such a low bar to set.  To place in my division Trillium, you have to be in that neighbourhood.  If the goal is to keep National ringers from coming in and creaming trillium people, at least make it 70+ or something that would really indicate a mismatch between horse/rider and the level they are showing.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Again, my hunter past is showing.  (Ok, two things I like better now, money and no crossover rule!) Trillium hunter you can show whatever you like, wherever, (as long as you qualify for the division, i.e. amateur, novice, junior, whatever) and it makes the competition stronger - now and again, some A circuit people show up and rock the boat, and alternatively, if you want to see how you fare with the "big guns", you can go out to an A show or two to test yourself without repercussions.  It just doesn't make sense that in tril. dressage, if you want to challenge yourself, you risk blowing your whole trillium year away.  It is supposed to be a COMPETITION...we should have rules that encourage strong competition, and challenging yourself, not ones that keep the circuit weak by design.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I am not ready yet to comit to National only - and really, at $500+ per show if you do it up right, I can't afford it - the Trillium shows are meeting my needs nicely, I am in with reasonable competition, good venue, I am very happy with the circuit.  However, it would be nice to get out to Palgrave to push the envelope against the best without worrying about having too great a show! (At least it would be easy to justify  scores - "ummm...good news!  We sucked!  Now I can still show trillium! #ed_op#IMG src="/richedit/smileys/confused.gif"#ed_cl#  umm.....we meant to do that, yah!)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Judy F]

I think the idea behind the 60% rule is that, when you score consistently over 60%, you are ready to move up a level. It may be out-dated now with the new tests, as the learning curve is significantly steeper now than it was before they adopted the USEF test system (5 levels vs 8, 18 tests vs 32).

[littlelegs]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#In some countries in Europe, they take a different approach - rather than limit a horse from showing at a lower level, each horse/rider has to earn the privilege of competing at a higher level. A horse rider might have to achieve more than one score of 60% at Training before being allowed to compete at First level.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#