Ontario Dressage Championships

[Adi]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Just curious as to who is going! I am pretty sure that I am going to compete at second level.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[*rickie*]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#Hmmm...I think people would be able to better answer your question, if you  specified what level you are showing....Trillium or National....#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#I do know that there are 2 Trillium Champs being held (as every other year...which I disagree with) and only one National Champ. so if you're looking to meet people, then you'd have to more specific #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Happy/14.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Judy F]

>#ed_op#span class="postbody"#ed_cl##ed_op#font color="#c080ff" face="Tahoma" size="4"#ed_cl#I
do know that there are 2 Trillium Champs being held (as every other
year...which I disagree with) and only one National Champ.<#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#span style="font-family: arial narrow; color: rgb(82, 83, 48);"#ed_cl#Rickie,
what's your problem?  The Ontario Provincial Championships are
for  national-level riders and are being held near
Peterborough.  The Trillium Championships are held in two
locations, east and west, for riders not quite ready &/or rich
enough to go to national level shows with FEI judges.  Having them
in 2 locations cuts travel expenses for us poor folks.  The same
judges judge both shows and the results are combined for the over-all
champion ships.  This has been tried for National Championships
but the expenses made some of the smaller venues unviable economically.#ed_op#/span#ed_cl##ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#/font#ed_cl##ed_op#/span#ed_cl#

[EC]

If anyone is looking for information on the Ontario National Dressage Champs, it can be found here. #ed_op#br#ed_cl#
http://www.dressagecanada.org/dcp.asp?pageid=102 #ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
And the Trillium Champs info can be found at: #ed_op#br#ed_cl#
http://www.cadora.ca/cadora-ontario #ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
Good luck to everyone competing! #ed_op#br#ed_cl#

[*rickie*]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#Judy, I just don't find that it's right! As I understand some of the reasoning behind it, I still do not agree with it. There are too many differences that affect many things. Such as weather, footing, venues, everything. They should be the same for both in order to make it fair to all competitors.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#And I also think that it's not just to make it more feisable (sp?) I think it has to do with politics between the Eastern and Western side of the provinces.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#Again, this is just all my opinion!#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#But Rickie, not to make a big deal or arguement about this, but why would we only have 1 championship and expect all of ontario to come to it? It is only trillium level! People showing trillium I can guarentee do not want to drive 4-6 hours for provincial championships. National, yes because it is a higher level and there is more interest and bigger named riders doing it. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#It is much too costly for them to have 1 venue. They would lose interest in the trillium champs and there wouldnt be enough competition. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Even at National there are 2 this year, the FEI ponies and junior championships will be in Ottawa.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I was considering doing the National Ontario championships at 2nd Level, but have decided I can't afford it. It's too bad because my horse is going waaay better than he was this summer. Oh well.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Caballo]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I am going to the Ontario Champs.  Hope to see you all there.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#When *rickie* was showing trillium, she had to trailer some 7-8 hours to get to the championships (several times over the years she was showing trillium).  Just thought I'd let you know in case you were working under the misconception that she lived in an urban area and therefore time, sweat, and money were not a deciding factor in her thoughts that there should be only one trillium championship.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I think the only way to make it #ed_op#EM#ed_cl#completely #ed_op#/EM#ed_cl#fair (if you ignore the money issues) is to meld both championships into one as well.  Or better yet...have a north / south championship...  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#-Caballo#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#ok so we will meld them together and then people like rickie will quite possibly have to trailer even further than 7-8 hours?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Rickie must live way way out far away for it to be 7 hours... haha#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Adi]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Wow! Forgive me, it says in the prizelist for the Ontario Dressage Championships, "Ontario Dressage Championships," I thought that was specific enough.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[*rickie*]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#ok so we will meld them together and then people like rickie will quite possibly have to trailer even further than 7-8 hours?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Rickie must live way way out far away for it to be 7 hours... haha#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#I don't think anyone could possibly have to travel any more than about 8 hours to get to a champs, no matter where it was held! And I wasn't the only one that had to drive that much of a distance....acutally Caballo and Nikita, as well as some others did the same as me, and even though I did have to drive that far, I still thought (and still do think) that there should only be ONE championship!#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#And Yes Xena, I did live very far away! (I've since moved) and to be quite honest, it was closer to an 8 hour drive if not more! Each year the Trillium champs are held around Ottawa and Orangeville, which are both places down *south* if you will. Ottawa and Orangeville only being about 5 and 1/2 hours apart. But what about the people far up north. Ontario is a pretty big Province, which makes it hard for the northern people to be able to compete at any kind of recognised shows, seeing as how much it costs to be able to travel to these shows, as well as to championships.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#I just think that one Venue makes for more equal judging. Remember with 2 venues, that means judges are judging on 2 different days, which can make for different judging patterns, as well as possibly the competitors at the 1st venue being judged harder incase there is something better at the 2nd venue.......again just far too many differences that affect marks with 2 venues.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[EC]

Just to clarify - the 2 Dressage Canada National Championships this year are: #ed_op#br#ed_cl#
1. FEI Pony/Jr/YR at the recent Ottawa Fall Classic#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
2. Grand Prix Freestyle Championships which is in conjunction with the Canadian League World Cup Finals at the Royal (November)#ed_op#br#ed_cl#

[Fritz]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Rickie, I hate to burst your bubble, but since I am one of the organizers of the Trillium Championships this year, I thought I would address some of your comments.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#First of all, the Western Championships have rotated between Orangeville and London over the past 4 years.  Previous to that they were held in Hamilton.  So, to generalize "Orangeville" as the location is incorrect.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Secondly, and I'll speak for Caledon and London Cadora groups here, we seem to be the only people who have 1) access to a suitable venue.  These venues must accomodate at least 2 rings and have adequate stabling on site.  Most venues who fit this criteria will have good footing and good facilities by virtue of thier size, so that arguement is poor.  You cannot certainly account for weather differences, I agree.  However, I have faith that both riders and judges could make concessions to deal with this issue.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#2) membership - completely #ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#VOLUNTARY#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl# - on their executive who are willing to put the work into organizing the show.  Especially when the show #ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#DOES NOT MAKE MONEY.#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#3) the criteria to qualify for Northern riders is significantly reduced compared to other riders in order to equalize their oppurtunity specifically to address thier geographic disadvantages#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thirdly, the North/South argument would make NO SENSE.  There are not enough riders in the North vs the South that the Northern Championships would likely be very underattended vs a Southern Championships that would be overattended to the point of turning people away.  Also, do we even know that the Northern groups have a facility or ability to host/FUND an event of the size of the Championships.  Sadly, a lot of the expenses do NOT get covered by entry fees - to keep them low enough that people will attend - and therefore come out of the pocket of the hosting group.  You need a lot of money in the bank to take the project on.  There are simply more resources in the Southern groups.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Fourthly, I'm sure this year's current judges Marilyn Dietrich and Joan Russel would be happy to hear that you have so little an opinion of them to be OBJECTIVE in their judging.  Great care is taken when choosing judges for the Championships - that a judge who is from the West as well as one from the East are chosen just to ensure equity is highly regarded.  Your statements that judges "save their best marks" are preposterus.  They are being paid to judge a show - like any other show.  They have little regard to how anyone places and I am sure judge each ride on it's own merits.   I would like to see your arguments to the contrary.  If you look at the results from year to year, you will see there is little pattern in East/West being dominant.  It changes.  That's to be expected.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Lastly, most people who show Trillium are not interested in showing when the costs may be equal or higher to that of a National show.  In order to combine, you would have to run a 2 day show.  That means a facility that could accomodate a large amount of stabling or run a greater number of rings.  That means more judges - more costs.  Or, more cost to the competitor that can no longer ship-in.  There are very few facilities in Ontario that can fill this criteria - guess what, they are Palgrave, RCRA, or Ottawa Equestrian Park.  So, you would inevitably have people travelling HOURS anyway.  And, entry fees would have to go up to pay the facility rental fees because few Cadora groups make enough money to offset the costs for competitors. And we haven't even discussed trailering (with gas prices in the $1.06 range) So, now your Trillium Championship show would cost the same as a National - what many Trillium riders ride Trillium to avoid.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So hopefully this clarifies the system as it exists for anyone interested.  I hope to see many Western Trillium riders in Orangeville on September 18th for great rides and a great time #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[zooka]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Galen will be showing training level at the national Ontarios hope to see people there.  Caballo I was hearing how Galen was treating you and i am sorry for her bad manners to you!!!  She obviously thinks she is quite the princess....#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Caballo]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I think the point *rickie* was trying to get across about the judges is that judges are people too.  They have good days and bad days like everyone else, and although they do everything in thier power to be completely objective it is quite impossible for them to achieve.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Now, with all that being said, doesn't everyone think that it is a bit ridiculous to rarely have more than 6 (and sometimes only 1,2 or 3) competitors per class at either an east or west trillium #ed_op#EM#ed_cl#championship#ed_op#/EM#ed_cl#.  And yes, I know that they combine the results to find the Ontario trillium champ, but still, isn't it a bit of a hollow victory and a false credit to come home a western or eastern trillium champ when there were 2 other people in your division?  Maybe that sort of thing doesn't bother other people, but it most certainly bothers me.   #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys//happy.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The issue of judging fairness and this lack of competition, I think, are the main reasons why anyone at all would ever suggest combining the two shows.  And combining them does have its merits, even if they do not appear to outweigh leaving them separate.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#And the northern / southern championship, was of course a joke.  Wishful thinking, as I wouldn't have minded cutting off a few hours trailering when I was competing on the trillium circuit.  There would be no way northern Ontario would have been able to produce enough riders or an appropriate facility for that kind of thing.  But, it is interesting to note that about 2 years ago, when there was a very active northern Ontario dressage barn (that also provoked activity from surrounding groups) very large percentages of classes at trillium championships (sometimes the majority) were composed of northerners. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Also interesting to note, I am paying less this year going to the Ontario National Championships than I did last year going to the trillium champs. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Good luck to anyone competing in either the trillium or the Ontario champs this year.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#-Caballo #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Lynda June]

Our New Forest Pony and rider will be going to the Trillium Championship in Orangeville

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#hmm since judges are professionals, are certified and usually have many years of judging under them, I would think that wether they have a bad or good day they will judge equal. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#If they are not doing this then I think we have a problem because then there is lack of faith in the judgin which would cause more problems. If you actually feel that have trillium championships in 2 locations is that much of a problem you have a few options, 1 being dont show trillium, 2 talk to someone who actually runs these shows because no one on these boards can really do anything OR 3 live with it and continue on. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Im sorry that I have no compassion over this issue Rickie and Cabello, but if I want to go to shows I have to drive many hours as well which is the case for many people in ontario regardless of where they live. Everyone must do it if they want to complete a full year of showing in whatever discipline they chose to show. No one forces you to drive thee distances.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#

Now, with all that being said, doesn't everyone think that it is a bit ridiculous to rarely have more than 6 (and sometimes only 1,2 or 3) competitors per class at either an east or west trillium #ed_op#EM#ed_cl#championship#ed_op#/EM#ed_cl#.  And yes, I know that they combine the results to find the Ontario trillium champ, but still, isn't it a bit of a hollow victory and a false credit to come home a western or eastern trillium champ when there were 2 other people in your division?  Maybe that sort of thing doesn't bother other people, but it most certainly bothers me

#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I would like to point out that yes, there may only be 6 people in divisions on average, but to get into the championships, I believe there is something called QUALIFYING... If riders cant get the 60% that they need and dont go to the championships that is really not the trillium organizer fault OR the fault of where it is being held. And to add to the I have usually seen more than 6 people. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#guess what, they are Palgrave, RCRA, or Ottawa Equestrian Park.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Hendervale too, but I can't think of anywhere else.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[*rickie*]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I would like to point out that yes, there may only be 6 people in divisions on average, but to get into the championships, I believe there is something called QUALIFYING... If riders cant get the 60% that they need and dont go to the championships that is really not the trillium organizer fault OR the fault of where it is being held. And to add to the I have usually seen more than 6 people. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#

#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#Correct me if I'm wrong (as I haven't been *showing* this year), but as far as I know, you only need a 52% to qualify, and that isn't very hard to get. As long as you're figures and transitions are right, and you ride a have descent test, you get around that mark.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#But I just want to add, that this a great to see this much enthusiasm in everyone. Although, I think there we're all going to have to agree to disagree with this one. As much as I understand some of the reasoning behind having to venues, it's just not entirely 100% fair or easily comperative, witht he whole schem(sp?) of things!#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#And for the person who corrected me on the location of the western championships being held between London and Orangeville, thanks, as I feel that because I am from so far north, I think of them in relatively the same area, seeing as how traveling 2-3hrs for me up north still puts you...well Up North! but that most people do not consider them to be in the same area at all. My appologizes for that!#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[*rickie*]

#ed_op#P#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#I just wanted to clerify a few things here, as I don't think I made myself clear.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#

#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Most venues who fit this criteria will have good footing and good facilities by virtue of thier size, so that arguement is poor. 

#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#I am not saying that any place has poor footing, but that there are DIFFERENCES in footing. What is perfect for one horse ride, combination, can be much different than another horse rider, combination, so therefore; having to venues, makes for 2 different footings, and that can also make for differences between horse rider, combination marks. Just a small thing, but it still makes it hard to compair results between the two.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#

#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Fourthly, I'm sure this year's current judges Marilyn Dietrich and Joan Russel would be happy to hear that you have so little an opinion of them to be OBJECTIVE in their judging. 

#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#I really don't think I ever mentioned anything about those 2 people in particular!! All I am saying is that judges are people too, and they have good an bad days, just as Caballo said. And as we all know, people's pet peeves change. I can certainly say that one week my #1 pet peeve may be people not riding to the buckle on their free walk, and the next week, it's people riding riding with too long of a rein in their stretchy circle. Not saying that these judges do that, but that they are people too, and them having to judge 2 different venues with a weeks break, can make for differences in judging.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#

#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Your statements that judges "save their best marks" are preposterus. 

#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#I'm quite sure we have all heard the term, "It's hard to do 1st, because the judge never knows what they are going to expect".......#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#

#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#In order to combine, you would have to run a 2 day show. 

#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#I do beleive that most people doing to champs, do trailer in the night/day before, and do stay overnight. I can say that I have stayed over 2 nights, because of the distance that I had to travel. So the argument of needing more stabling I don't understand, as most people even if they are just there for the day, or one night, do rent a stall...so if there is a room for 1 night...why not 2??#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#Again, I'm not fighting with you on any of this Fritz, and I see your points as well, but thought that I would just clerify mine, as it seems that you didn't quite understand them, or that the way I put them made them come across in a different way than what I intended. #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Happy/2.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#