clinic report!!

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Well, yesterday was my clinic with Belinda Trussell... Lets just say it was interesting, if not a little disapointing? Out of her and Daphne Haagmans, I really liked Daphne Haagmans alot better. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#First thing, she was asking me about my horse, what the goals were ect. I told her and was trying to explain about her operation in the winter ect because I really thought it was a valid issue that she should have been aware of because it had effected Xena so much. She didn't seem the least bit interested... So ok, that was the first thing that didn't sit well. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So we start the lesson, luckily I had done some warm up prior to the lessons because she started off by having me totally crank Xenas head in. Basically thats how the whole thing went. My shoulders are sooo sore from holding my horse in a frame like that. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#And I have been working so hard the last few months to get Xena going off my seat rather then hands like that. She basically told me what I already knew, that I should do transitions with her... duuuuh, thats what Ive been doing. She wouldn't let me do rising trot either and the way that she had Xena going was so tight and choppy that I was bouncing around haha. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#By the end of the lesson Xena was grinding her teeth, no slobber or anything.  I doubt I would go to another one with her. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[zooka]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#that is too bad xena.  It sounds nothing like the lessons I have watched of Belinda before.  Maybe she was having an off day.  I should get Adpaga to read this because she goes to Belinda's a lot and I do not think she has ever had that experience.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Caballo]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I thought that Belinda Trussell was a really good clinician too, and just a really nice person in general.  (I had a couple of lessons at her stable a couple of weeks ago) ...it's strange because I never remember her asking for anything that would include having the horse's head forced down; if anything, she got my horse to come much more "up" in his head carriage and off of the forehand.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Is your horse young and/or inexperienced?  Maybe she was using "long and low" exercises to help him/her reach to the bit and come over the back so that they would be able to maintain throughness when it's time to start work with the head carriage a bit higher.  I've found that when I do exercises that change the way my horse moves, he becomes #ed_op#EM#ed_cl#much #ed_op#/EM#ed_cl#more difficult to sit, and sometimes it doesn't feel correct because I have become so used to riding the gait improperly.  Maybe that's what happened?  Just a thought!!!  #ed_op#IMG src="/richedit/smileys/classic.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Or maybe Zooka was right and she was having an off day... #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#-Caballo#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#maybe... she was nice, but not very friendly. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#There was no long and low work... at all#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#That is how I usually warm up and from the very start she had us going really, really round and higher then she has ever been worked before. And she just felt so rigid and not nice at all. It wasn't overly horrible, and yes, maybe the change in her way of going was the reason it felt funny.... #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I will definatly try what she was saying and see what happens... I just didnt like the reefing on her mouth constantly. Because the way I have always been taught was the horses way of going and neck set is made with your seat. And most of my dressage lessons were done with a german coach... So it probly is just the style of training methods. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I think it was just too much for Xena maybe and that is why she started grinding her teeth... She does it when she gets overly stressed and from the 4 years Ive had her I have just paid attention to it and gotten it to the point where she is not stressed like that. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Patricia]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I have heard nothing but good things about Belinda Trussell. Could it be that your focus is eventing and NOT just dressage.  As far as a steady contact that is NOT reefing.  Maybe she was trying to tell you to ride on a shorter rein and push the horse into the contact?  Does your horse go on the forehand?  Long and low is great BUT comes a time to ride with more contact and teach the horse self-carriage.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Of course, anything new would feel strange and takes time to asimilate.  I hope you had your lesson videotaped....!  It always looks different when you play it back and is a good learning tool!  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I have no idea Patricia... All I know is that I did not really like her attitude, all she asked was what were my goals and if I had been to any shows this summer. And I answered and was going on to explain that I hadnt gone to many shows because of the operation and she did not seem to have any interest at all. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#If you were training a horse and rider like that would you not be interested to know that it had a 5 month layup? Ecspecially if you could see the horse had a capped hock? #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Plus she was late starting my lesson also. I came in like 2 minutes before I was supposed to and she was chatting with the people sitting there, and then she went off somewhere, probly the bathroom or whatever. But when my lesson was supposed to start at 3:45 and she has just had 15 minutes to do whatever..... #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I dont know, the whole thing just didn't sit well, she didn't even know my name. She kept calling me Sonya... I really found that a bit rude, like im paying for a lesson and you cant even remember my name... That really doesnt show me that your paying all that much attention. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I think it was more the attitude and lack of interest that I more had the problem with. She was telling me to yank on her mouth because she wasnt paying attention. And she was not telling me to have steady contact, her explaination was literally to yank and catch her in the mouth... pretty much her exact words. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I dont know, like I said I have always been trained to ride from your seat, complete opposit of how she was getting me to ride. Wether my interest is eventing or whatever, you still need the same basics. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Im not trying to argue with you guys, maybe she is better when she is giving normal lessons or something. I have no idea. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I also dont think a young horse should EVER end a lesson or ride grinding their teeth. Long and low is how I usually do her warm up so that she relaxes because she IS a hotter horse and it helps her loosen up and relax over her back. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Patricia]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I usually get in a GOOD warm-up for a clinic like that because they put you right to work.  To get your $$$ worth so to speak.  If your horse is travelling inverted or not paying attention, they do want you to take a hold of the reins.  Quite possibly if she is NOT paying attention you have to have contact to get her working and then go longer...does that make any sense?  I had a TB that would demand contact or he would invert...I had to have a few lessons where my arms hurt to give him the idea of what was expected and then we moved from their.  With previous owner my horse never new long and low only to invert.  That could be what she was doing...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#As far as not knowing your name...the facility hosting the clinic should have had the proper info or stepped in and let her know...I am sure she would have apologized....Maybe they changed the schedule and neglected to change the names?  They are on a tight time schedule...I would think that falls on the organizer.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Although, if your horse inverts or is not paying attention long and low has no purpose if she in not stretching into the contact and you don't have her attention.  Sometimes you have to have contact to give it away....to achieve long and low...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#  I would say put it behind you and move on....#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#oh no, she had the sheets with everyones name and there were no changes to the schedule... It was planned over 2 weeks ago. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Different things work for different horses, how I get my horse calm and listning is through long and low. Not every horse can move this way and not every person may believe in this. But it has taken me a long time to figure it out with her and start getting her going properly. She is not the kind of horse you can yank around like that. Long and low is the only way she will EVER relax enough to move out from behind. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I guess there is no point in arguing because everyone here seems to be stuck on her side anyways and making excuses for her. This is my experience and my opinion, no one can do anything about what happened.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I had said before I would write how the clinic went and I was not happy with it and I probly would not spend the money again to do one with her. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Its not my riding style or how I have been taught. Like I said I did most of my dressage training with a german dressage coach. The rest were done with an eventing coach who had similiar training methods as the german coach so there was no problem, and I know the eventing coach would have absolutely freaked if anyone yanked on a horses mouth as much as I was asked... Hence my preference to Daphne Haagmans, who at least showed some interest in myself and the horse I was riding. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Theres nothing wrong with her, it just is not the way Ive been taught. Maybe for some her methods work great. For my horse I feel they did not. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[LucasL]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Try John Lasseter if he ever comes to your area.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#He is fantastic.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Adi]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I have had  nothing but really good experiences with her. I am really sorry to hear that it didn't go so well for you.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# She was telling me to yank on her mouth because she wasnt paying attention. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#

#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Now I don't know Xena and her habits, but we did go through having to do this with Boomer in order to sharpen up his downward transitions. Yes, he responds to the seat, but he got to a point where he had a good enough grasp of the concept that he had to learn to be sharper about it. He would tend to take 5-6 strides to make the transition, so what we did was ask with the leg and seat but if he wasn't walking or halting within 2 strides he got a quick jerk on the bit to make him pay attention. He decided he wasn't so crazy about having that happen and now comes back much better and is more inclined to listen to my seat in the first place. He wasn't really paying attention and taking me seriously. I find with dressage training that when you initially push for better self-carriage and collection that it can create some tension until the horse gets more comfortable with the idea. Sometimes you have to take a step or two backwards short-term to achieve something that will be better in the long-term.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The trouble with clinics is that different trainers have different methods. Most of the time that can be a good thing, but some horses do have very specific things that work for them, which the clinician won't know from one lesson. It's too bad for you that this was one of those times, and that she hadn't learned your name, etc. I don't know anything specifically about her so I can't comment, I've never had a lesson or clinic with her.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm glad to hear you liked Daphne Haagmans, she is in my area, and was someone I was thinking about approaching if we outgrow the current coach. He won't take me past 4th and we're schooling the upper end of 3rd now, so it's not an immediate issue, but it's on the distant horizon soundness willing.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Adpaga]

Sorry to read that you didn't enjoy your clinic Xena. #ed_op#br#ed_cl#
Learning is sometimes very frustrating, especially when we are so keen about it.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
 I have been riding with Belinda on a regular basis since last
spring and we have been making leaps and bounds in our education. She
-and her coaches Christelot and Udo- are slowly making me a more
proactive and secure rider, instead of the "elegant passenger" I feel I
was. We had to get some points through with my 8 year old who had some
habits that would hinder further progress, and yes, at points I had to
"shake him off the bit" and be sharper and more demanding. As you point
out, I thought that long and low and moving from the seat was what we
were doing, but I am realising now that he was rather below the contact
in front, out far behind and although looking pretty and scoring well
in shows, not really rideable (not paying attention all the time for
exemple, and taking ages to do simple transitions). #ed_op#br#ed_cl#
What has been key in the training with her, is also that we always ride
at least two days in a row (I have a 4-5hour trip to trailer to her
place). The first lesson was like a culture shock, the second gave us
the opportunity after a good night sleep to understand and feel the
benefit of her points. And when we can afford a third one, this is
usually when everything fall into place and we leave with a solid
training plan for the weeks ahead. Also, video has helped a lot,
because learning new feelings doesnt always feel good, but looking at
it, you see the difference!.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
My horse has been very sick in July, and I discovered that as a coach,
Belinda was as concerned as I was about his recovery and gave me all
the help she could (contacts and moral support etc..).#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
So maybe you have run into some concept that shock you, and didn't have
time or opportunity to get a more in depth feel of their results. Maybe
the personnalities don't match, nothing wrong with that. But if you
like Daphnee, you could also enjoy Belinda's teaching, as both train
with the same coaches Christelot and Udo and from what I have seen
apply successfully the same  education on their horses.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
In any case, as for any clinic, take what seems pertinent for your
horse, and keep the rest in the back of your head for a bit, just to
make the most of it. Clinics are great, but so challenging for the
coach giving them and the students exposed to a different way of doing.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#thanks for the info adpage... I think you are right and maybe the personlities just didnt match. Daphne was just so much more relaxed and willing to talk about things and explain things.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I have been trying what she suggested though... Sit back and hold my hands and make her come up to me as she said. Though it doesnt feel like anything good is happening. She is just starting to pull and fight more and the pace just feels so stiff and not relaxed... And the thing is, before this, she was getting to the point where the transitions WERE quick and correct. Not wobbly nto the walk or anything anymore. Her head wasnt stuck all the way up but she wasnt dragging it either. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Since you take lessons from her, would you suggest I keep trying, I know new things dont always work right away... #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#And actually my old coach, havent taken lessons in awhile becazuse of the issue in winter ect, did the clinic as well. I am going to see her this weekend maybe and ask her what she thought too... Not to say she is wrong with her training, just my coach has know me forever and knows my horse. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Adpaga]

If your coach was there and watched your lesson then you have the ideal
situation, as she will be able to give you her comments, explain the
points that didn't come through, and help you with your horse's
reactions. Important is also that it enables you to keep on working in
the continuity of what you had been doing before (do not throw
everything out of the window!), and have guidance with the new tools
and feelings.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
Good luck!#ed_op#img src="richedit/smileys//smiley10.gif"#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#she actually didnt get to watch my ride because she was getting her horse ready... #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[zooka]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#a good suggestion xena would be to bring someone with you to video tape the ride so that you could watch it over with your coach at another time and go over what you like and didn't like.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[della]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I found your comments about the clinic you recently attended to be insightful and familiar. I just rode in a clinic with a coach from Germany, near Toronto. Before the lesson (which started late), I advised the coach that I had retired my horse this past Spring, and I was riding a horse (in the clinic) that I had only started lessons on in late July. Thus I had not been riding much, and did not have alot of stamina yet I wanted to attend the clinic to have a critique of my riding (such as it is). Despite my explanation, this coach prceeded to work me and the horse for a good 40 minutes at "working" paces at trot and canter. When I finally felt that I could no longer continue without a break ( I was hot, winded and red-faced and my horse was sweating), he claimed that I needed an oxygen tent and the lesson finished shortly after that. He was also late starting my lesson by 10 minutes while he worked with another student, and at the end of my lesson he proceeded to chat with the trainer of the barn who was exercising another horse. I would have appreciated some comments about my riding, but hey I'm just the paying student. I will say that, in that gruelling time period, I did get some good instruction and pointers that I can apply to my future rides. But I feel I was not listened to when it came to my shortcomings (not to mention the middle aged horse I was riding) - could the coach not have broken up the lesson with walk piroettes or some lateral work? Instead we just went round and round. For my $100, I would not attend another clinic with this particular coach.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#That really sucks Della... My coach now is from germany and she has a listening problem sometimes too. But I can at least talk to her about stuff. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I did take some of what Belinda had suggested and thought about it when Im riding. But I can only do some of it in moderation with my horse. My horse is NOT a horse you can yank its face off like that. She just gets P.O. and starts being more bad. Shes the kind of horse you have to talk stuff over with... Not force. I did start sitting back more and getting her head set a bit higher though. I dont ride her very long though. I get a good half  hour of proper work and then it starts to peter out because shes tired. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#