Klaus Balkenhol and Debbie McDonald

[Piaffing]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#This was such a great clinic. I got a lot out of it. I have attended many clinics and found this one very well worth the money.  My mind is spinning with all the info.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Also Dr. Gerd Heuschmann DVM gave a lecture on the Anatomy of the Horse and how it relates to the training of the horse.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#And Danny Kroetch of DK Saddlery gave a lecture on saddle fitting to the horse and the rider.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#A lot times clinics like these just reaffirm what you are doing is correct. If you missed, it you missed a good one.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Keetee]

I am very interested in the anatomy aspects - I think it must be my
engineering brain.  Anything in particular that stands out as
points to watch for when buying/training?#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
Who rode in the clinic?#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
I would have loved to have gone but first of all it is Thanksgiving
weekend so I have several other commitments, second of all, I would
have to get to TO and then stay there, not an inexpensive
prospect.  Glad it went well!#ed_op#br#ed_cl#

[Chisholm]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I was hoping to go as well.  But as Keetee said there's the travel to TO and finding a place to stay etc.... and who holds a clinic on Turkey weekend.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#But who all rode in it?  Hopefully maybe Kerri will post a report on the clinic in the news section.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#im glad you had a great time at theclinic piaffing!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Piaffing]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#There were some very good discussions on the Rollkur and the so called show trot (that is where in the trot the horses front legs are going in a very high exaggerated way) and how it effects the horse's body. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Elizabeth]

It sounds like it was a wonderful clinic. I was tempted to go but I don't have a horse to ride right now and I would have felt like a kid with my nose pressed against the window of the candy store!! Plus, this is the first full weekend that I have had off in a while so I wanted to spend it at home.

Friends of mine from north of Peterborough were there and I look forward to hearing all about it from them next time I am up there.

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#do you mean show trot like the arabian country english pleasure type trot?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[halt at X]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I attended the symposium as well and felt it was a wonderful learning experience as well as a good reminder of the classical principles that many of us know, but that we forget to adhere to in today's busy world.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#In response to the question about "show trot", this was a term used to describe a horse's trot gait when the front legs are moving in an exagerated and flamboyant way (to make the crowd go "oooh" and "ahhh") while the hind legs are lagging in engagement. The diagonal pair of legs then do not move equally as they should. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#If the horse is trotting with proper engagement of the hind end, the forearm of the horse during the trot SHOULD be parallel to the hind cannon . In a "show trot" the parallel of the diagonals is lost. The front leg is thrown too high, and the hind leg is not carried far enough under the horse's body. It was noted that, unfortunately, this "show trot" is scored very well by judges in the international arena because it is "impressive" to see the horse showing such exagerated movement. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Unfortunately, the "show trot" comes at the expense of relaxation through the back. When horses tense the long back muscle, it pulls the forearm up and out but does not allow the hind leg to engage and come forward under the horse to match this movement. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#There is much more to the explanation than just this, but Dr. Heuschmann who presented the information at the symposium spent over 1 hour explaining the biomechanics and anatomical reasons for it. But I hope that this short explanation gives you the basics of it.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#why would a dressage rider be doing this though? I think im missing something... Is it done for collections or something? Or what trot movement specifically are they referring to? It cant be the regular working trot? #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Again... I know where this comes from from the arab side... But im missing it on the dressage side... Then again I dont watch tons and tons of high level dressage shows.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Elizabeth]

I just got an email from my friend who attended the symposium and she said that it was wonderful. She was very encouraged that Klaus and Debbie were both very focused on having the riders not overbend their horses and keeping the nose in front of the vertical rather than behind. She also said that Klaus was against draw reins and overly tight nosebands. He wanted the horses comfortable and happy.

She also said that the information on saddle fit and how it affects both horse and rider was really good. It was stressed that a saddle must fit both horse and rider in order for the rider to be able to be in balance as this greatly affects the horse's way of going.

Xena, unfortunately as mentioned here, some judges are giving high marks for a trot where the front legs are moving with more extravagance than the hind legs. This is mostly seen in the extended trot but some horses show it in the medium trot as well. I guess some riders ride what they think the judges will reward. I haven't watched much high level dressage in the last few years but I know that when I was showing there were several of the higher level horses moving this way. It looks flashy but is not correct.

[Piaffing]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So you can get an idea of how the angles of the trot should be. Grab some old magazines and find profile photos of the horse troting. Using a ruler and pen draw a line along the front of the forearn (front Leg) and along the front of the hind cannon. Both lines should be of simialar angles. If they are not then the trot is incorrect.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[AWSgurl]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#here is a great link about the clinic#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#A href="http://www.ultimatedressage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=68576"#ed_cl#http://www.ultimatedressage.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=68576#ed_op#/A#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#enjoy it, it was great!!!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#hmm thats pretty cool piaffing! I guess I am innocent in the dressage world so I havent gotten into cheating the dressage trot... lol I have always just wanted a natural, proper pace. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I will have to take pics of xena trotting so I can measure her angles#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[halt at X]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#xena, the "show trot" that they were describing in the symposium comes about when horses are pushed to produce a more extravagent gait before they are physically ready for it. Because sport horse breeding is now producing horses that LOOK like they are ready for the upper levels when they are only just babies in their development (ie. they have a beautiful topline, well developed neck, and what appears to be a strong hind leg), there is a tendency for people to rush their training and get them through to the upper levels before the horse has the opportunity to properly develop its musculature. Regardless of how strong a horse appears, if they are young and just starting their training, they are NOT capable of sustaining an upper level frame (or any kind of dressage frame!) properly or for any length of time. It takes months for the horse's muscle system to develop, not days or weeks. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#When you ask the question of "why would someone want to do this"... well some possible answers are: Money (fancy moving young horses sell for higher prices), and Fame (fancy moving horses often score better in the dressage ring and therefore their riders win more classes. Much of the entire debate has to do with whether judges SHOULD be scoring these horses so highly... but that discussion is not one that we are going to be able to solve on this bb). #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The problem is most noticeable in the extended paces. It is more difficult to spot at the working trot... however it is good to check your progress at an early stage so that you don't head down the wrong path at the beginning. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Good luck.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[cadence]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm glad there is finally more mention that the horse's nose should be slightly in front of the vertical.  I've seen far too many tucked in too far and it results in lost engagement in the hind end.  The horse cannot physically move to the fullest extent of their beauty unless their nose is slightly in front of the vertical.  Yaay to Debbie and Klaus!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[mallard]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Halt At X...THANKS so much for giving a good report. I read your review a few days ago on UDBB. I checked back today & find all h*ll has broken loose!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I have copied your original post + the one from the vet so I can re-read it at my leisure.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#My confidence in my training plan has been reinforced by this clinic. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Back to basics...Small, simple, single....is my motto.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#My 5 year old Connemara was started lightly last fall at 4 & put away for the winter. This year he's been just going forward on long straight lines & BIG circles & shallow loops. We've gotten a steady 1-2, 1-2 rythmn. We've been hacking & doing pole work with some small jumps..even some small XC stuff. He LOVES the water! #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#We started canter work and he is very very balanced, but needs to be sent FORWARD with loose floppy reins, so we do not canter circles. Now that we are forced to ride indoors more we will not be cantering. I do not wish to distrupt the good forward motion in the tight spaces.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Being 'on the bit' or 'in a frame' is not on our minds at all right now & I will have a happy & sound dressage pony for many many years.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#