Forward!! What a Discovery!

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Forward!! What a Discovery!

Postby RioG » Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:55 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Crazy that I've been riding for so many years and I feel like such a kid again whose parents finally agreed to let them take riding lessons.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Rio and I have discovered forward.  We spent the initial weeks of our "dressage discovery journey" learning to accept more contact and to be balanced and somewhat rhythmic.  We stuck to trot and kept things slow and calm in an effort to teach her to use her body in a balanced way.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Now we're moving forward, and wow, what a great feeling!  Number one, the mare is sound.  This is the horse the vet told me to "trail ride around the farm" once or twice a week.  She now moves soundly and happily.  I swear she looks forward to the work.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#We're doing circles, serpentines, lots of direction changes, all at a forward, relaxed trot.  I can sit, I can post, I can ask for less, for more... she remains balanced and rhythmic and uses her hind end.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Of course I know it feels better than it looks.  She hasn't suddenly morphed into a 5 year old warmblood.  But man oh man, what a great feeling that she's come even this far!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Any suggestions for exercises to keep us happy and interested throughout the winter?  We're working outside in a lighted ring that will be maintained as best as possible.  Right now my feeling is that we'll be leaving canter work until spring, but that could change.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby chenders01 » Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:16 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Congrats, Rio!!  I am soooooo happy that your mare is sound again.  I'm sure that is such a relief for you.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#As far as exercises...hmmm...sounds like you're doing all the right ones.  I have heard that Cherry Hill's book "100 Arena Exercises" is a really good one.  Not sure how many of them you could do outside, but you might want to check it out, to get some ideas.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#And, hacking.  I'd do lots of hacking over the winter, to keep your mare "fresh" and interested in working.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I long for the day when I am at the point you are at with your mare.  Right now, I'm just working on getting Tequila to be less spooky in the indoor <sigh>  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby babytigger » Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:58 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#congrats rio!! glad all is going well with your beastie!!!!!!!!!!! - aren't those" oh that's how it's done" moments great!!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#i agree with chenders - it does sound like you're doing all the right "work" for helping her in going forward. i think that as long as you can keep her interested over the winter you'll continue to make progress in the spring...and yes, i think i would leave the canter until spring as well.unless it's a super mild winter......i think that "forward" work is harder in trot for them than canter, isn't it??#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby chenders01 » Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:10 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#One of my coaches told me once that it takes a good YEAR of *correct* forward trot work, to build up the horse's muscles to be able to carry himself properly in the canter.  Of course, I didn't believe her LOL!!  A year?!?!?  But I did straight trot work with Leo (my horse at the time) for a year, and then one day, we started to work on canter and WOW!!  It was awesome.  And this from a 20yo QH who had spent his whole life on his forehand.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm still working on "forward" and "submission" with Tequila.  I try to throw in a short canter every so often, but this is just for fun.  I'm nowhere near "schooling" it with her yet...she's nowhere near ready.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So, I would say to concentrate on the trot over the winter, and maintaining that awesome "forward" with her.  Throw in a canter every so often, for fun, and to see if she can carry herself properly in that gait (don't expect more than a few strides at first).  And then, next Spring, you can start schooling her more in the canter.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Sounds like fun!  I hope I get there someday...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby RioG » Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:42 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Chenders, Rio sounds like your Leo.  She's 13 (so I keep saying... in reality I think it's more like 14 or almost 15) and naturally travels on the forehand and I have never known how to "fix" that, even if I did know it was "wrong".  I've owned her for 10+ years and I know the mare inside and out, so I know when to push, when to leave alone, when she's going to spook (and exactly what she's going to do) so I think that is an advantage for me learning a new discipline on an old horse.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#That's interesting, about it taking a year of trot work to build up to canter.  My coach suggested that she likes to introduce canter simply by asking for as much forward trot as possible and letting the horse naturally take the next step into canter.  This actually worked for us on the weekend.  It's going to be interesting to learn how to harness the energy so that we are able to achieve the more forward trot rather than the canter.  It seems like it's a fine line.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm just thrilled to be enjoying my riding again.  The fact that Rio enjoys it as well is definitely icing on the cake.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#You know, I think I might even have that Cherry Hill book at home... I'll have to dig it out.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby jax » Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:47 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#A lot of European trainers won't canter a youngster for about 8 months to a year of riding.  Not that I know many, but that's what I've heard #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Happy/2.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#As far as keeping her happy for the winter, definitely hack her around on nice days, and when you are doing ring work you can mix things up by throwing out trot poles and making up patterns.  Start circling and then maybe change direction and do a smaller circle the opposite way, then across the short diagonal to a serpentine across the ring to a serpentine with just shallow loops along one wall, change direction in the middle of a circle, trot the long side then do LY in walk along the short side before trotting off again, you get the idea.  Just mix it up so you're not stuck in Circleville.  Don't necessarily have a plan when you start, but definitely figure out what you're going to do for your next movement before you ask so you have time to prepare and don't just spring it on her.  My TB loves this stuff because she gets bored really easily.  She likes to use her brain.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Leena » Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:39 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Bravo RioG !!!!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Now, more important to understand: your mare is sound because she moves; that is a fact with arthritis and you were wise enough to have her built her balance and muscle before doing anything hard for her.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#This is the way you will keep her sound. Allright, now that indoor times are coming I would just say that any decrease in working time should be&nbsp;done by slow but steady decrease. The same for increase.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Feeling your horse forward is one of a few reward you have as a rider. Take it for all the clouds&nbsp;you have been through and enjoy it deeply !!!!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Leena#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby LucasL » Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:39 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I have a 3 1/2 year old gelding who I will be starting to ride after Christmas. (He was backed last summer, but I have left him alone since then to do some more growing.)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I have been reading a book called "Right From the Start" by Michael Schaffer. He has some very interesting theories, one of which is that there is a "natural circle" for every horse at every gait. This circle is somewhat less than 20m and he tells you how to determine what it is. The claim is that schooling for short periods on this circle (varying the direction) will help your horse maintain his balance and tempo.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I haven't had a chance to discuss this with my coach yet, but the explanation made sense and I'm eager to see what she has to say.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Ruth » Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:59 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Congrats Rio! It's great when it finally clicks and you get real forward. Took me a long time to get it with Boomer.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'd agree with leaving the canter until spring if the footing is iffy, there's lots to work on in walk and trot. I'm not sure whether I agree with not cantering a young horse or not. I didn't canter Boomer for until he had been under saddle for 7 or 8 months and it became a real issue with him when we did start cantering. I often wondered if it would have been less of a big deal if we had done a&nbsp;little canter all along.&nbsp;So with the 4 yo I have done canter with her much sooner and I'm not sure that was any better of an idea! She hasn't developed the same degree of issues with it that he did, but it does get her wound up.&nbsp;I don't school her in canter yet, I just ask for a transition and if we can make it once around the ring I'm happy, if she breaks I let her, I don't force it. She did develop some difficulties with picking up the left lead that I think were related to lack of strength, though, and she does find canter quite exciting as a result of trying to fix the left lead, not that I worked on it every time or anything, just once a week I would say OK, you are going to pick up the left lead. I never punished her or pulled her up too quickly for picking up the wrong lead. So with her by introducing the canter earlier it was a "thing" more than a full-blown "issue", and the left lead is working again, so all's well that ends well. I really don't know what the answer is there. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Anyway your horse is not a youngster and already knows how to canter, so it shouldn't be a problem to leave it.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby RioG » Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:23 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Leena, that is so true about the arthritis.&nbsp; What I'm finding interesting is that as soon as the word "navicular" is mentioned the answer is "don't ride".&nbsp; At least in my experience it has been.&nbsp; I'm beginning to wonder if she even has navicular at all!!&nbsp; Arthritis, definitely, and if you consider navicular to be just another form of arthritis, then I suppose it adds up.&nbsp; But that is never the impression I get.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Anyway, regardless... she's sound, she's happy and I'm looking forward to braving the elements this winter to try and keep her that way.&nbsp; Can't wait to start some canter work in the spring!!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Edited to add - my analytical side is kicking in and I am beginning to wonder if it truly is forward we're experiencing...what a great experience it would be to ride a school master and know what forward feels like on a horse that knows.&nbsp; Of course we're just going to continue on in this vein and trust that if it feels good it is good (the lessons I have are so wonderful - I always come away with little pearls to pull out when I over analyze).#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby jax » Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:56 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Oh yes, definitely a dressage rider if you are analyzing everything to death&nbsp;#ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Happy/4.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Leena » Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:52 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#RioG, I always thought she had arthritis...I might pick it up in my dyslexis....I remember a women who save a very nice QH&nbsp;mare from slaughter a while ago. She was lame.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#With a good farrier and care, the mare got back fine and training took care of the rest; she was sound after and stayed.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I am convinced now that having a horse balanced and working with his hind helps releiving a lot of weight on the front. Then good trimming can do a good job.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Good luck !#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Leena#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Piaffing » Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:19 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Good work keep it up.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby graciespook » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:51 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Congrats! Its nice when you find that button ;)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby RioG » Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:29 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Leena, sorry, I don't mean to confuse you (you always have such good advice in your posts!) She does have arthritis (in my opinion) but the official vet diagnosis 4 or 5 years ago was navicular.&nbsp; Without taking any xrays (just doing a general exam)&nbsp;another vet "confirmed" this for me this summer and suggested that I don't ride, or at least only hack once or twice a week.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#But seeing the amazing improvements this work has done for her - I've stopped using the "n" word as much, and mainly refer to (and treat) her condition as arthritis.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thanks for all the kind words everyone!!&nbsp; What a thrill this is.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Leena » Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:28 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#RioG, #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I feel better I was not that far !!!! Lol !!! Another story where another friend had started doing dressage with a big jumper who was always lame...... Well this brought us to discuss about the benefit of having a good dressage based on any horse.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#In fact, horses have a better balance and learn how to use themselves safely. The big jumper had learned to preserve himself and was in better shape after.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So RioG, if you forget about jumping too much your mare and work her in dressage, you might be able to jump small course just for fun once in a while.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Good luck and I am really happy for you !!!!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Leena#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Patricia » Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:38 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#IT is exciting when things finally come together!&nbsp; We have a forever free lease type situation.&nbsp; He came to us as a retired jumper.&nbsp; He seemed off in his front right--some kind of changes.&nbsp; He was out of work and was travelling on the forehand on a loose rein when we saw him being ridden.&nbsp; We took him home and rode him differently and lightly in the beginning.&nbsp; Getting him off the forehand with lots of transitions.&nbsp; He has had only a few off days and we have been able to even show him in dressage now.&nbsp; I felt that type of work has made him stronger and kept his sound.&nbsp; He seems to enjoy his new job.&nbsp; Keep us updated!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby RioG » Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:50 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thanks Leena.&nbsp; We we never big in the jumping department, but it would be fun to be able to do a few cross rails here and there just to keep things changed up.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Patricia - same thing!&nbsp; Not the free lease, but the lameness.&nbsp; Actually, when I first started lessons with my new coach I went to see one of her students compete in a dressage show.&nbsp; She rode a 17 year old TB ex-jumper who apparently had been jumped to death.&nbsp; Only a year ago they were on the verge of putting him out to pasture.&nbsp; I don't know all the details but this horse apparently even had a broken pelvis at one time!!&nbsp; He used to be very, very lame.&nbsp; He was stunning at that show - the musculature alone was just gorgeous, and he was very, very sound.&nbsp; I think she even broke 60% that day, which I gather was a decent score for a horse that only a year ago was considered dog meat by others.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm looking forward to hopefully getting into the show ring this summer.&nbsp; #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Patricia » Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:59 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#That sounds like our horse!&nbsp; He jumped extensively on the A circuit.&nbsp; He is 17 years old and he TOO also fractured his pelvis....Weird co-incidence....We showed him in dressage all this summer...Only issues this summer was an abscess and we dealt with it.&nbsp; The odd time in hard footing he would be ever so slightly off and we would just take it easy...Most people wouldn't even notice.&nbsp; He is on no supplements either...except for Vit E/Selenium.&nbsp; Knock on wood....This guy loves to work...I hope he doesn't try to kill me with the winter off...He was feeling really good a few days ago and laced me with those new hind shoes...Their comin off Dec 9.&nbsp; #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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