Did you know? (Rant!)

[amadeo]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Kind of off-topic... but any idea as to why they call it a "daisycutter" trot? #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Mystic]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#SP, in that pic Dream is travelling like a typical hunter of today. He's in a nice flat frame and travelling close to the ground, exactly what the hunter judges are looking for. My mare does not go like that. Even when her neck is rounding down in a stretch she is still quite tucked on the bit and pushing through from behind. Also she has a high knee action thanks to her clyde/hackney pedigree. Not exactly something that the judges want to see in the hunters even though she puts in a flawless performance and is actually a field hunter.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Amadeo, they call it a daisy cutter trotter because the horse doesn't lift it's feet to high off of the ground. It should look like it's cutting the daisy's as it trots along. You don't want a lot of high knee action.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[BarnBratCSA]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Soda, your horse travels much like my horse, the only difference being that Abby frames up a little more.  That's the way hunters here go, but they can have a little higher head.  I personally think that looks nice and dont see the problem with it, as long as they're using themselves correctly. I do see horses with a  higher head pin as well, if they have a nice go.  I would like to also add that there is a certain standard that must be met in all areas of showing, be it western, dressage, jempers, or anything else. When I first started showing, only a TB-type horse pinned in the hunters, so my chunky QH looked out of place.  But I could make it up by going in with a huge trot and a great round. I guess what I'm saying is that even if your horse isnt what's "type-y", you can usually make up for it (here at least). I've just accepted that there's always going to be something thats "in" and if you cant be what it is, you've gotta make up for it in other ways if its possible.  Showing is just like high school. hehe. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Mystic]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Barnbrat, I know what you mean. I was actually able to place a chunky 'old style' qh in the hunters a number of years ago but unfortunately these days it's mostly the tbs that place in the hunter, at least up  here at any rate. My mare is better suited to the jumpers at any rate. She likes to run and jump. The faster the jumps come up the better as it keeps her focused on what she's doing instead of letting her mind wander like was wont to do in the hunter ring. Plus she's built more like your typical grand prix jumper. Big boned with a large muscle mass. She's faster than most people give her credit for. And in the jumpers her high knees don't matter since all you have to do is get around clean and under time.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Marty_Jones]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# I do understand that a part of Hunter is the judge's opinion. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#But when does it cross the line?  Is this just me or is anybody else seeing it too?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#

#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#This is why I left Hunter... I liked showing but I couldnt stand the "snottieness" I am a very friendly rider I like to smile when I ride.... in the past they didnt smile at all....(I was the only one) Along with the style changes Im not a bank and cant afford to keep changing my show attire considering I only show when I have enough $$(I showed hunter when I was 15 and paid for most of it. now marty isnt quite ready) So after always being looked down upon and so I left. I went to eventing I find that they are more accepting, encouraging and friendly. This is why I have stuck with eventing I only show hunter in fairs and I use fairs as a training tool and so I dont really care that Im at a show.( I still try... but I could care less if I place) So as you can probably tell Im a lil bitter lol. Im gonna try a lil hunter with Marty this summer maybe.(thats if we dont get kicked out for his runny nose lol) But thats my veiw and before I go into a full rant Ill stop and spare you lol.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[DurhamJumper]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#SP thats so what the judges are looking, for but personally I hate when a horse rides that like.  I find so many keep pointing there noses out and pulling the reins. Or because the nose is out like that, that I pull back to much, the mare i'm riding now sticks her nose out more when she canters so i pull all the time (if anyone knows how I can fix this I would so apperciate it).#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I perfer a rounded horse and dont care what judges think.  My goal isnt to be a hunter forever and really dont care about my placing well I'm a hunter.  Mostly cause its nothing you can control.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I was watching the Worlds figure skating this week, another judge sport and so many times I was like why did that person place, they fell and were off here and there.  This is going to sound bad but it was held in Russia and even though people skated better then the russians they took most of the golds.  There was an Italian girl and she was by far breath taking to watch but the russian girl got first.  Theres no reasoning to judge sports doesnt matter which one it is.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Mystic]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#That's why I"m in the jumper ring. My mare is definitely a jumper. Had one show organizer comment on what an amazing horse she was and was really impressed with the progress we'd made since the first show there (May - Sept). He agreed that my girl is definitely a jumper but that if he was going to go hunting she's the horse he'd want to be mounted on. #ed_op#IMG src="/richedit/smileys/classic.gif"#ed_cl# I even had 2 people ask me if she was for sale and they hadn't even seen her go at all, just walking around the show grounds. My girl was even mistaken as a stallion at one show because she's quite big, plus her coat was gleaming black in the sun and she had her jeweled browband on.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[*rickie*]

SP thats so what the judges are looking, for but personally I hate when a horse rides that like.  I find so many keep pointing there noses out and pulling the reins. Or because the nose is out like that, that I pull back to much, the mare i'm riding now sticks her nose out more when she canters so i pull all the time (if anyone knows how I can fix this I would so apperciate it).

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#Learn to ride without reins...this way you won't want to pull her nose in, and you can just ignore it. It's a common problem.......so don't feel bad#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#How if you're at the stage where you want her *on the aid/on the bit* then you need a good coach to help you acheive that.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#If you want more help feel free to PM me!#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Sodapoppers]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#0060bf#ed_cl#Hmm I don't really have a problem with him pulling. If i put my legs on even more at that point he'll start to round up more but we're not quite there yet. At least I'm not. SOmeone who knows what they are doing can make him do amazing things #ed_op#IMG src="/richedit/smileys/bored.gif"#ed_cl#  However when i first started to ride I did have a hard time with him stretching his head down and yanking me out of the tack LOL  #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#0060bf#ed_cl#Maybe this year if we can get to the show without a particular A curcuit rider who always shows up, we might be up for a 1st! #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[PerfectAngel]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Well, this topic has gotten me thinking of what I consider a nice hunter hack round...so, I went on equine.com and found a few pics of hunters in what I consider a nice hunter headset for a hack class.....agree or disagree...???#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#IMG src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/ShezaPerfectAngel/hunter2.jpg"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#IMG src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/ShezaPerfectAngel/hunter1.jpg"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I couldn't resist...this is She's All That, the hunter that I referred to in an earlier post:#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#IMG height=224 src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/ShezaPerfectAngel/Shesallthat.jpg" width=156#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Kobau]

#ed_op#TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"#ed_cl##ed_op#TBODY#ed_cl##ed_op#TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"#ed_cl##ed_op#TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off"#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I agree with the first picture, horse looks like they are carrying themselves, their poll is above their withers etc...the second one, i don't like from first glance, poll is below withers and that makes in nearly impossible for the horse to be using and engaging their hindend properly! plus to my eye that horse is heavier on its forehand.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#When i left BC the paints at least had to gone to the rule of the horses poll must not drop below the height of the withers, as a major thing, if your animal went with head to low you had no chance of placing, and i just talked to a good buddy there and she said they are still nailing them, but if they go to a show outside the valley they have a chance to place even with poll low....#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#But the point is, a horse with a poll below the withers, unless supremely athletic, etc cannot properly engage their hindend, because the lower of the head causes the weight to shift onto the forehand. When really in order to move out better and be engaged you must help the horse to shift their weight to their haunches more.........#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/TD#ed_cl##ed_op#/TR#ed_cl##ed_op#TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"#ed_cl##ed_op#TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on"#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV id=hotbar_promo#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/TD#ed_cl##ed_op#/TR#ed_cl##ed_op#/TBODY#ed_cl##ed_op#/TABLE#ed_cl#

[Mystic]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The first picture definitely looks like a typical hunter these days. Maybe it's just me and I've been taking lessons with a dressage coach for too long but both horses are definitely going on the forehand in my opinion.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Sodapoppers]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#^ I'm with mystic. #1 looks better than 2 to me, but he could come under himself better. #2 is just plain moving downhill imo...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[amadeo]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#They both look like they should be in a western class to me. I'm not a big fan of downhill horses AT ALL (which is why I really, really don't like quarter horses), so neither look appealing. It's a good thing I don't do hunter, if that's what they're looking for. A horse who's on the bit is what I'd prefer, not one that's low with its nose a foot from the ground like that.. looks lazy, unenthusiastic, and bored to me.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Mystic]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm with you Amadeo (not about the quarterhorse thing as I did manage to place an old style qh in the trillium training hunters a number of years ago). A lot of horses in the hunter ring look bored to me. The reason my mare never placed is because she goes too much under herself and round even when she's stretching her neck out. Plus my mare needs more to keep her mind occupied than jump five strides jump. She loves the quick pace and excitment of the jumpers.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[graciespook]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The horses aren't working from behind. The two first pictures, the horses aren't using their hind ends. They aren't even close to tracking up. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I love the hunters. I have always had fun, and at the schooling level always found that a nice steady round with a half-decent horse would pick up ribbons. The hacks were a little different, my old horse used to work more in a dressage frame and still won lots of ribbons in the hunters. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#It depends on what you do, where you go, what type of horse you ride. Everyone has bad stories and a few good stories about their experience inthe hunter ring I think. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Mystic]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Gracie's right. Those horses are definitely not using their hind ends and it's because they are tipped onto their forehands and their shoulders have dropped. You can't expect your horse to power through from behind if their shoulders are down. You also won't get good rounding through their backs and true collection and extension will be very difficult to achieve. Unfortunately this is the look that most hunter judges are looking for these days.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[PerfectAngel]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Well, I personally have to disagree...the first one has a level topline, and depending on how a horse is built, can easily use their hindquarters with their topline parallel. I find that the first horse IS infact using his hind end. The second, I admit, is not in a good position to see, but I honestly don't think he's falling over forwards....I also must remind people that even though a horse is in a dressage-type frame that they can still easily be on the forhand.....it depends on how they're built. I know that my filly gallops around in the field with her topline level, so it must be the easiest position for her...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[BarnBratCSA]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I have to agree with the above... my mare has SO MUCH impulsion from behind, and her topline is always level - thats how she's built. She's a very correct mover, and she's not downhill at all. I think its quite possible for them to go like that AND be correct. I like the way she goes and  I wouldnt change it even if the "way of going" for hunters changed to going like a dressage horse! She's comfortable and happy going like that, and its correct. IMO, if you like the way your horse goes, great. But let's not be down on the way someone else's goes.  I'm not here saying that I dont like horses that go with higher heads and on the bit, because depending on what you do, thats correct for your horse.  So why is everyone so down on the "level topline, long trotted" hunters? If its correct for that horse, and it's working, whats so wrong with it?   Every horse's build is going to make them go a little differently.  Some horses will never be capable of going long and low, others wont be capable of doing anything but that.  It's just the way it is.  Fortunately for the horses that go long and low, that's in now.... wait 6 mos, it'll change #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys//smiley2.gif"#ed_cl#. That's the way the horse world is, unfortunately.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Lix]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I also must remind people that even though a horse is in a dressage-type frame that they can still easily be on the forhand

#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Very true.  I had a mare that would 'round her neck' (for lack of better words) and bend at the poll.  To the novice eye, it looked very dressage like, but in reality, she was just leaning on my hands.  I paid for it, she was VERY strong.  She was an ex-barrel racer and I never quite got her out of constantly leaning on my hand but even though she casted a pretty picture for an eye on the ground, she was VERY much on the forehand.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#My current mare is the type of horse that has more of a dressage frame.  It's just the way she carries herself, she just doesn't do the long and low thing.  But I have a long ways to go and I still have alot of work to get her to work from behind.  I did show her at a little show in the summer and didn't do as good in the hack classes because of her style.  We placed better in the dressage classes.  But again, it's still at a very low level and I wouldn't say she is necessarily working from behind properly.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#All in all, I agree with Barn Bratt above.  Different horses carry themselves different and not travelling well from behind and not tracking up is common in both the hunter and dressage world.  Headset doesn't say the whole story.  :)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#