Did you know? (Rant!)

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Did you know? (Rant!)

Postby Originalpearmare » Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:42 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#*Breaking News Coming From Many (Hunter) Riders Of Today*#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Did you know there is only one part of your anatomy you use when you ride? Boy did I sure get an awakening when looking at several (winning!) Hunter riders' pics. That and when I saw some 'Top Equitation Riders" from my area....#ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Other/8.gif"#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Do #ed_op#EM#ed_cl#any#ed_op#/EM#ed_cl# riders of today (Hunter or otherwise) EVER sit on their rear ends? I've always been taught that way and lately (not really just lately) I've been appalled at the lack of use of your butts and legs in and out of the ring. It seems that you have only one (well 2 actually) part of your entire body you use; your pelvis and your hands. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Anybody else getting disgusted at this? #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I've seen so many wonderful mounts go in to a barn as an absolut angel - pack around ANYBODY and within 10 months be sent right back out as a #ed_op#U#ed_cl#very#ed_op#/U#ed_cl# dirty quitter...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Many 'trainers' and 'coaches' seem to have no clue how to solve so many easily fixable problems. They just assure little precious and family that they should sell that mount for a few pennies and then go buy another for mega wages of cash (and then give coach a BIG sum of money for helping to find it).#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#As someone once told me, they feel that Warmbloods became big because the coach would rarely have to 'train' it and could just rake in the bucks and be all set. However, I've always been a strong believer in ability over name/breed. My guys are wellrounded before they hit the ring. I used to enjoy the steady and constant pace of Hunter until I saw all the prejudice and snootiness taking place in the rings. When breeds and colours are assigning you your placings, I have an issue. I understand that certain colours look better and are more acceptable (clothes wise) than others but when you have perfectly acceptable show attire, and the judge doesn't place you after a flawless round but instead places someone who had a much less than perfect round, then I get upset! #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Angry/6.gif"#ed_cl# I do understand that a part of Hunter is the judge's opinion. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#But when does it cross the line?  Is this just me or is anybody else seeing it too?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Sorry for the rant....Most of that probably didn't make sense (and more than likely) came out the wrong way....#ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys//smiley9.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Terry3025 » Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:54 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I totally agree with you.  Unfortantely, Major is great at hunter jumping, so it looks like that's where we're headed..:(  Oh well it'll be a change of pace!  I was talking to my old dressage coach who was originally from Europe and she was shocked at how big hunter is in North America.  It dominates all the shows.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Also I was having a jumping lesson this summer with a really great hunter coach.  And she said that it's so nice to see someone who knows how to put their horse on the bit.  Are you not supposed to put your horse on the bit and have them round out nicely when you are in the hunter ring?  I'm sorry but from the very few hunter shows I've been to they never have the horses on the bit.  They're head is always sticking up #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys//smiley11.gif"#ed_cl#  I really don't find that that is a very nice look.  And that's probably why I prefer Dressage!!! #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I hate the breed and colour bias.  Although I do love greys...but thats not the point, lol, off topic, sorry.  You should be judged on the quality and performace of your round, not which horse is prettier than the other. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Sodapoppers » Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:14 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#It was my understanding (my very limited understanding of this discipline! lol) that a hunter is supposed to stretch the neck out and look for contact. I agree with you though PM - lack of seat really gets me scratching my head. My coach used to event so she's HUGE on good seat and sitting deep until you are about to jump. none of the perching, gripping with the back of your legs stuff...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby *rickie* » Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:20 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#If you don't understand the judging of Hunter....go sit in on a "How to Judge Hunter" Clinic....then you'll understand why some get placed higher than you would think......#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#As in everything....there will always be 1/3 who hate it, 1/3 how love it, and 1/3 who don't really care.......#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Originalpearmare » Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:30 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#*rickie* I do know how they're *#ed_op#EM#ed_cl#supposed#ed_op#/EM#ed_cl#* to be judged! #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys//smiley2.gif"#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#What I'm complaining about is those riders who have no leg, seat, rely on their hands and use gimmicks to 'achieve success' faster and it is VISIBLE what is there/not there what they're doing or have done, and yet they seem to be the 'star hunter/equitation riders'....#ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Thinking/3.gif"#ed_cl# To me I would say there is at least some prejudice going on there...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Myself - I used to LOVE Hunters...After I found all the snootiness of several riders and after talking to several judges...There was without a doubt more than a little prejudice in the Hunter rings.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I still feel that talent/ability should be the main focus and not breeds, coaches, or show attire.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby dressagenap » Sat Mar 19, 2005 3:47 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I have never shown hunter myself.  However, I do have a number of friends that do.  Practically none of them can ride on the bit.  I always see photos of them riding and their little hunter ponies will all have their noses straight in the air and their backs beyond hollow.  It practically makes me want to stick a few hunter kids on a horse that, say, bucks unless they're round (and yes, I do know a gelding that will usually do so).  As for the whole thing with not using your seat - I more or less agree with you about the style, although I haven't watched enough hunter shows to know about prejudice, etc.  Usually, I'll use a bit of a half seat when I'm doing a course or even cantering around the arena before a line.  I find that it helps a lot when you're cantering/galloping for longer distances, both for the horse and the rider.  However, I don't rely on my hands for control - I still use my legs and seat/position.  I like to maintain some contact with my elbows (I've been taught that contact, etc. should come mainly from the elbows, NOT the wrists and hands).  Sometimes I'll even get a nice dressage frame in between fences :)  I doubt that I would in the middle of a class, but I like keeping my horses at least #ed_op#EM#ed_cl#round#ed_op#/EM#ed_cl# at all times if nothing else.  Staying in a major two-point position constantly is a definite no-no in my opinion.  Even my half seat is (idially) quite balanced and close to the sadde, and I sink further into the saddle as I approach a fence.  Like you said, Originalpearmare, a deeper seat is vital for run-outs/refusals.  Far too often I've seen people come into their two-point before the horse's jump can 'push' them out of the saddle, and so their horses will take advantage of them and either run-out or refuse.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Originalpearmare » Sat Mar 19, 2005 4:24 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN class=postbody#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl# #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#dressagenap - I had a 'coach' that did your exact method of punishment...(This was before I found my coach and I *cough* admit that yes I did the Hunter Perch at one point too)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Soon as I even thought of a Hunter Perch, I was tasting some fertilized dirt....She was the toughest meanest snot out there and I'm very proud to say that I have overcome my 'sins' and have had her jaw drop by feeling her tricks and teaching methods coming on and making them backfire. Oh...Did I forget to mention that this 'coach' was my first pony? #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Angry/7.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#That mare and I had MANY discussions (Okay - Well that was after she got retrained and had many more discussions with my mother) and she was the best thing that could've happened to me. When we first got her, she was an angel...for the most part. She had had a year off as the lady's son had outgrown her so she was left in the field. So her 'stubborness' was chalked up to that. Until the day we went over a line and she split and ran faster than a banana squeezed out of a peel. That was my first time 'hitting the dust' and all I'd care to admit was that that wasn't dust and hurt a lot! #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys//smiley9.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Anyways - I'll skip a lot of trying and frustrating times about that lady - she did teach me to sit on my arse and how to use seat and legs. She also taught me about the usage/nonusage of hands and just where I'd find myself if I decided to get too perchy again.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm all for half seats if you know how to use it properly, but I don't like riders being taught the Hunter Perch as the only way to ride. That bugs me to no end!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Granted - That is not to say there are not fabulous Hunter riders out there because there are! Not every Hunter rider in my area or that I've met/talked to is snooty or prejudiced, I'm just saying that it feels like the bad outweigh the good by far!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I do still like seeing *proper* Hunter rounds and may drag my sorry butt out there again one day. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I've talked to a few people about the Hunter Perch and what I find funny is that they say that is the only way to pin in a Hunter class. However, I must ad my $.02 to that statement and say NOT TRUE! I've done very well in Hunter classes by using my seat and legs instead of hands and pelvis. Actually I believe it was at that same show I beat the girl...She didn't appear to like that my seat/legs beat her hands/pelvis and it was proved in front of all her fewllow barn mates. #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys//smiley5.gif"#ed_cl# Not my problem though! True riding wins out overall IMO.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Brianna » Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:20 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#6000bf#ed_cl#I ride (and show) H/J - but I tend to lean toward the open hunter classes or the equitation. In the other categories, I sometimes get *punished* by judges because my horse is a flashy mover (rather than a *daisy cutter*) and travels on the bit, in a nice, round frame instead of like a giraffe, above the bit. #ed_op#FONT color=#6000bf#ed_cl#And personally, I prefer to ride a round horse than a strung out, hollow-backed one...soooooo much smoother, lol. #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#6000bf#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#6000bf#ed_cl#There is absolutely a way to ride hunter, in half-seat or 2-point and use your seat and legs effectively - but you have to push your horse into the bridle to achieve it. My hands are and always have been very soft. Yes, I use them - but my mare more often then not goes around on the buckle with no change in pace or how she is carrying herself. But, then again, when I am schooling, I only tend to use 2-point if I am stretching, hand-galloping or approaching a fence. #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#6000bf#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#6000bf#ed_cl#I always thought that the point of hunter was (supposed to be) ...to award the horse that you would most like to end a long hunt on...i.e. that you would ride home after hunting all day long.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby *Lovely* » Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:45 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#There are 3 things that are always written in stone( as my coach says);#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Your horse....#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#1. Moves under your weight#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#2. Away from your leg#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#3. Towards the rein#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#If you think about it, if the horse moves away from your weight then you must sit on your bum to drive him forwards. At the barn I take the lessons at, all of the owner's horses (5 of the 9 that are there) will not move forward unless you are sitting on your rear. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I think it looks plain ugly when the horses head's are strung up high, and it doesn't seem nice for the horse either.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby dressagenap » Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:51 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Originalpearmare, no worries - I wouldn't even go as far as to call what I sometime use a 'hunter perch'; it's not a perch at all!  I use my seat and legs; they're vital.  I used to ride at another barn occasionally on the weekends.  After quite a long break from riding there (it was very far), I went back for a single lesson.  During that break I had learned a fair bit and experienced a lot.  Well, the coach/owner there told me to ditch what I've been told since I first started riding (that your seat is the most important aid) and to stop using my seat.  That was the end of my life at that barn!  I'm with you in not agreeing with riders that always use the 'hunter perch,' especially as I'm quite fond of dressage and a deep seat is necessary for that.  However, I do think that there are times when a lighter seat can come in handy.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby DurhamJumper » Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:11 pm

Originalpearmare wrote:#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#What I'm complaining about is those riders who have no leg, seat, rely on their hands and use gimmicks to 'achieve success' faster and it is VISIBLE what is there/not there what they're doing or have done, and yet they seem to be the 'star hunter/equitation riders'....#ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Thinking/3.gif"#ed_cl# To me I would say there is at least some prejudice going on there...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#
#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I ran into this at a certain show series no matter what this one girl was always winning, jumping her horse refused, dismounted her and didnt jump the last jump and she still got first.  Every other horse jumped the course fine.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I started to vent about it right there at the show, turns out it was her mommy and daddy were the ones who ran the show and the judge was apparently getting a bit extra.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#To say the least I've never went back to that show series.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I've also heard that something judges just pick one thing that are looking for that day, say hands or leg position and thats what they base most of there judging on, but you have no clue of knowning what it is they are looking for that day.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#When I go out to a show I keep in mind that i'm out here to ride my personal best or at least have a fun day trying screw what everyone else thinks, if i know i did great thats all that matters, otherwise you just get fustrated.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Brianna » Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:13 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#6000bf#ed_cl#DJ - you're right, that is part of how judges do it. Seriously, as unfair as it is to those of us that have great rides but say our shoulders or heels weren't perfect that day -  I can't say that I blame them for using that type of method. They often have huge classes, and tons of them to narrow down to 6 places in minimal time. The few classes I've entered that were judged fairly (by more than one judge, one at each end of the arena, I might add) left me at the show grounds until 7 pm, because my last class was late starting. #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Mystic » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:45 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I know all about what your horse should look like in the hunter ring and it is not round and on the bit. Most hunters today are flat from nose to tail and completely on the forehand. I took the mare I part board to a hunter clinic with a top trainer/judge last year as it was the first year she was going to be showing. Granted she is a jumper but she needed the hunter work to start. I got nailed because my horse goes around the ring soft, round, through from behind and  completely on the bit. She was nervous so she was a little more tucked than normal I got in trouble from the clinician for this. Also my mare will kick out to the right during a left to right lead change if she's not rounded properly. The clinician had the audacity to tell me it was my spur that was causing this reaction. If that was the case she would do it both directions and I ride with the big long hunter spurs and you know what because my horse goes properly thanks to dressage training she does not have a single spur mark on her side. The clinician put spurs on one of the other riders, the really tiny almost not there spurs and after an hour of wearing them her big fancy hunter had spur marks. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#If you horse doesn't go around in a completely flat frame on their forehand don't expect to place much. I put in a fantastic hunter round in one show last year and wasn't even looked at because she wasn't going in the hunter style. If you're on the bit, you're seen as too dressagey. The only people you will see riding on their buts are dressage riders and jumper riders. Most hunter riders today pose on their horse and really can't ride to save their lives.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#6000bf#ed_cl#"I always thought that the point of hunter was (supposed to be) ...to award the horse that you would most like to end a long hunt on...i.e. that you would ride home after hunting all day long."#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#6000bf#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#000000#ed_cl#Brianna, if that's the case then my mare should have been placing no problem as she is mainly a field hunter that actually goes out on the hunts and yet she's never even looked at. The only 'hunter' ribbon I got was an equitation ribbon on a day when the footing was really bad.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Brianna » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:26 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#6000bf#ed_cl#Mystic - if it was really the case, then I, too, would pin better in hunters. That is just what I was always led to believe by trainers and reading - and it seems to make sense to want a comfy, floaty horse for the part of the ride that will be hardest on your butt!!!...what happens in the real world is not usually the same though. Oh well. #ed_op#IMG onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#C6D3EF';this.style.border='1px solid #3169C6'; " style="BORDER-RIGHT: #3169c6 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #3169c6 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #3169c6 1px solid; CURSOR: pointer; BORDER-BOTTOM: #3169c6 1px solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c6d3ef" onclick="InsertImage('/richedit/smileys/bored.gif');" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor=''; this.style.border=''" src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/bored.gif" align=absMiddle#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#6000bf#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#6000bf#ed_cl#Edited to add that I'd love to hear what that clinician would have said about my mare - she ONLY does auto changes in the show ring. Will not do them at home, it ends up in a battle that is simply not worth the fight...but in the show ring, I hardly even have to ask and she switches without even swishing her tail, lol. #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby BarnBratCSA » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:34 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl#A little late to this topic, but I'd like to add that there is a reason some riders ride like that.... I'm not saying that it is correct to rid in a "light seat" all the time, but it is correct at some points.  Forexample, when I'm riding a course,  I will sit and use my seat from about 3 strides out, but on a larger course (my barn has a huge hunt course) where there is a lot of distance between lines or fences, I ride in light seat to get off my mares back and allow her to move forward and more freely.  So if used correctly, there is consistantly a combination of light seat and full seat.  Also, just because a rider is in light seat does NOT mean they arent using leg. In fact, riding in light seat and staying off the horses back puts more weight into your heel, causing a stronger leg throughout.  I find I use more leg riding like this, actually.  As I said, I'm sure all riders dont use the light seat correctly, but when used correctly there are benefits to the horse.  Also, ify quote a book I justread written by an olympic-caliber rider, "light seat allows you to move easily to full seat or two-point whenever these are required".  So, maybe light seat isnt always incorrect?? I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just trying to show you a side where this riding is correct. #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby BarnBratCSA » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:42 am

#ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl#
Mystic wrote:#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl# #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl#If you horse doesn't go around in a completely flat frame on their forehand don't expect to place much. I put in a fantastic hunter round in one show last year and wasn't even looked at because she wasn't going in the hunter style. If you're on the bit, you're seen as too dressagey. #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl#
#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl#Apparently things are different here in the states.  That seems more like what your talking about is the QH-y way (I've been there, done that). Here, flat horses dont pin as well.  I think they want to see a horse that's using itself and jumping nice.  With the hunter coaches I ride with, I am never told to put my horse in a flat frame. IF anything, I let her go as she naturally goes.  My mare naturally carries her head/neck level - that's how she's built to move. But I've seen horses who go with their head a little higher but on the bit and they win.  IMO, they're not really looking at headset here. They're looking at a horse that moves freely, using itself, with a nice consistant stride that gets over the fences in a nice form and puts in a nice "easy-looking" ride. Here, we never really get caught up in headset for the o/f classes.  In the flats, maybe a little more, but then they just want, again, a horse using itself and maybe on the bit.  I dont see a lot of horses here that go flat like a daisy-cutter anymore.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Mystic » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:57 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Must be nice BarnBrat because up here that's all the judge wants to see. If your horse doesn't go like a daisy cutter forget it, even at the schooling show level. Trust me on this as my mare does not go like a daisy cutter, she's much higher in the knees than that thanks to her clyde/hackney breeding but because of that she's not even looked at even when she puts in a spectacular round. This happened to me at one show last year. We put in 2 fantastic, perfect rounds with proper changes and striding and everything but we were over looked for the more daisy cutter type horses even though their rounds weren't as nice.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Granted the rider is not the one being judged in hunters but they are a part of the overall ride and in my opinion an effective rider on a not quite typical 'hunter' makes a nicer overall picture with a clean round than a poser on a daisy cutter that is just going on autopilot.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm also not saying that half seat shouldn't be used as I use it all the time in ring to get my mare to really open up for the galloping stretches in the jumper ring but there is a difference between riding in half seat properly and just posing there. Someone that can ride effectively in full seat can ride with the same effectiveness in half seat but someone who just poses in half seat can't really ride effectively in half seat. Also in the hunter ring you never ride in full seat, even when showing on the flat. It's always half seat or two point otherwise they see you as being too dressagey. At least in the jumpers I can switch between full seat for the corners to balance my mare back and half seat to get her to stretch out.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Kobau » Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:20 am

#ed_op#TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"#ed_cl##ed_op#TBODY#ed_cl##ed_op#TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"#ed_cl##ed_op#TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off"#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#I know when i did do hunters i never had a hope of placing. My mare was a Morgan, they do not do daisy cutter! well actually i had one coach place us ( which personally was amazing cause my mare was very hard to keep calm quiet and steady etc... but that day she was super mellow and was an amazing ride (3'6" class)) they said that while i had more movement than they look for in a hunter, the fact that the horse was so steady, and working properly, getting all her leads and looking like such an amazing ride he had to place her.#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#But otherwise up here it seems to be daisy cutters, trained by the coach with riders sitting up there posing... annoying as all heck!#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/TD#ed_cl##ed_op#/TR#ed_cl##ed_op#TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"#ed_cl##ed_op#TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on"#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV id=hotbar_promo#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/TD#ed_cl##ed_op#/TR#ed_cl##ed_op#/TBODY#ed_cl##ed_op#/TABLE#ed_cl#
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Postby Sodapoppers » Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:31 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#It is possible to go "flat" and not be on the forehand. The purpose of "flat" is to be equally balanced and it seems to be the fad. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#A href="http://www.amasonrnw.com/septshow5.jpg"#ed_cl#http://www.amasonrnw.com/septshow5.jpg#ed_op#/A#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#just to use my horse as an example...i don't know much about hunters but i got lots of compliments on how he was moving this particular day #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby PerfectAngel » Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:46 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#There are pros and cons to every way of riding.....I ride in hunter seat (I wouldn't call it aperch, because I use my legs and nothing else to hold ne in a light seat) when my horse is either resisting forward movement, or has problems such as a sore back (if it were my horse I'd get it looked at but he wasn't mine....I don't ride him anymore anyways). #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I know that one particular horse that I showed for 2 years wouldn't jump a pole if you sat deep in your saddle, because he found it uncomfortable to move. As soon as you lightened up your seat, he was perfect. He also stretched "long and low" which made for a nice hunter. He wasn't on the forhand, but he wasn't moving from behind as much as a dressage horse either. I ride my current horse in a sort of "in between" seat, because if you sit too deep, she doesn't move as nicely, but if you ride in "hunter seat" she doesn't round out as nicely. I find it depends on the horse a lot. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#It also depends on the judges you have......some are very discriminating, while others actually look at the ride not the position (that's an equit. class....not judged in hunters, but some do anyways)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Anyways, I hope that hunters becomes less political when my filly (paint) is ready to show, because she has what is seen as the perfect little "hunter headset" and daisycutter trot!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#On a side note....when I used to show in Quebec (région Chaudières/Appalaches) there was a hunter named She's All That and she always went in a dressagey frame and cleaned up all the time....it was the prefered "look" at that time in that region, but now it's the "long and low" look that wins. SO, it does vary....#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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