Distances in combinations

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Distances in combinations

Postby lokukac » Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:07 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Hi guys,#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Please HELP:#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Jumper trillium and A shows, 4': what is the min-max. distance between the jumps in the combinations? Like #ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#1-stride combo: 7-7.5 metres,    2-stride combo: 10-10.5 metres?#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl# Am I right?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#(Geez, I have a horse long like a train, #ed_op#IMG height=15 src="/richedit/smileys/ec-jumpbars.gif" width=68#ed_cl#and she thinks the 1-stride combo is a bounce, the 2-stride combo is good enough for one stride#ed_op#IMG style="WIDTH: 16px; HEIGHT: 17px" height=48 src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys//tired.gif" width=16#ed_cl#. Not sure if I just should let her do in her way, or should I squeeze her into the official strides. Wow, life is not easy...#ed_op#IMG src="/richedit/smileys/alien.gif"#ed_cl#)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Dream_Merchant » Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:39 am

<font face='times new roman' size=2 color=#609A9F><i>
The distances sound about right - a horse's stride is around 3.6m on average, and this is what most course designers work off. So your normal one stride distance should be around 7.2m and your normal two stride distance should be around 10.8m -- that is including your 2 steps for landing and 2 steps for take-off (which is considered all up as a horse's stride of 3.6m added on to the strides).

Of course, this does vary with desginer to designer and course to course -- some will make the combinations long and some will make them short etc. So I would try not to teach your horse to jump a two strided combination in one stride -- what happens when you walk a course to find a 6.3m combination? (one step too short); your mare will seriously struggle. And bouncing one strided combinations isn't a good idea -- you will get away with it while the jumps are small, but no way will you get away with it when they start to get bigger! It's hard, but definately train her to do one stride in a one stride combination, and two in a two stride combination -- there is no other way around it.

I have a horse who is 16.2hh, but he is very long aswell, and has a super long stride on him -- a long one stride combination, is actually quite short for him, so a short combination is a real squeeze. But with training at home, he has learnt to fit them in. The best way is to do heaps of gridwork and trotting into small jumps set up in combinations; this way, they haven't got speed behind them, and so they will land in slightly shorter. Start by making it a longer stride, then start to shorten it up so she gets used to jumping in small over the first jump, and then taking a slow and easy stride, then jumping out.

Saying all this though, don't think of it as a burden -- you will find you'll come into compeition to find a 5.5 stride related line, and while most horses will have to gallop to get the five and really risk flattening the fence, or shortening like mad and risk punching out the front rail, your girl will glide down there in the five easy (I find that with my bloke all the time -- which of course makes him super fast against the clock because he can "cut out" strides in related lines).

So there is pros and cons about having a long striding horse, but you have to work with what you've got, if you had a short striding horse, you would have to work with that as well (I would rather have a long strider anyday, I've got a short striding TB that is proving a real axe to teach to lengthen out a bit!!).

But good luck, and let us know how you go with her -- I hope all that has helped you!!!</i></font>
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Postby lokukac » Wed Aug 17, 2005 11:37 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Dear-dear Dream Merchant,#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thank you for the thoughts. This is what I needed! #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Yes, I'll teach the mare for the proper striding, she is not hopeless. I did a 10.5m combo:#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#1st jump 90 cm high, then pole on the ground at 3.5 m, another pole at 3.5 m, second jump 110 cm. At first she was a living question mark, but then she put her eyes on the poles and picked up her feet.&nbsp;I did it twice one day, twice the other. Third day I removed the poles and she did it wonderfully with two strides. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#After two days of trail riding I went back to see how is she with the two-strides-thing. I was alone, so after a couple of warm-up jumps I went into the same combo without lowering it and without&nbsp;poles on the ground. She laughed at me and did one stride. Darn...#ed_op#IMG src="/richedit/smileys/beard.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#We will do it again with poles and with somebody's assistance.#ed_op#IMG src="/richedit/smileys/bored.gif"#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#This mare is 170 cm tall, and a size 86" blanket looks pretty on her. I did not measure her steps, but she steps over 30-40 cm with ease with this long body~!!!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The course designers can not be so&nbsp;brutal to build a shorter combo then 7 or 10 meters! #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The more striding is OK as you said the horse has some option to extend or shorten - depending on their nature.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thank you again!!!#ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Happy/19.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Dream_Merchant » Wed Aug 17, 2005 8:12 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#EM#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Arial Narrow" color=#609a9f size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#No problem Lokukac,#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#It will take awhile and a lot of patience no doubt, but she will catch onto the idea after some time -- even over a 110cm she will stretch out a bit, but it will sink in, I promise you!! That will always be one of your major training concepts when jumping or doing flat work on her -- teach her to shorten and slow down etc.#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#Good luck with her though, you'll have to let us know how she goes in competition and such!!&nbsp; #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Happy/21.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/EM#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby lokukac » Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:51 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#A little&nbsp;update:#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#mastering the distances took a month jumping approximately twice a week. (This is not too intense.)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Now the horse is capable to solve one and two strides up to 3.9' height.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I did the "poles on the ground" trick between the jumps three-four times. The mare learned to estimate the distance, now the rider can happily travel on her.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Today we were jumping a few, and I had a feeling the horse is "schooling" me. She went to the jumps as it is written in the Big Book, and she just flowed over them. No rush, no sweating, no hard breathing, no suprises. It was so nicely calm, I even had time to watch my position, hands, legs etc. Wow, within a year! In style.&nbsp;A supersensitive crazy bronc* became a serious jumper.#ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys//horsehead2.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys//ec-thumbup.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#(* I have got whiplash last November because of her&nbsp;super-bucks#ed_op#IMG src="/richedit/smileys/dead.gif"#ed_cl#.)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Phil » Sun Oct 09, 2005 11:03 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Here is a link to a distance chart developed my Martin Cohen#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#A href="http://martincohen.com/course/index.html"#ed_cl#http://martincohen.com/course/index.html#ed_op#/A#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I am not familiar with using metric when i do courses, but generally depending on the footing and whether your horses are covering ground ie indoors vs outdoors you can play between 24 and 25ft without having any problems.&nbsp; At horse shows many designers play with distances a foot on either side of that with a variation of vert to oxer, oxer to oxer, vert to vert etc which will affect how the horse jumps the second fence to increase the chance of getting a rail.&nbsp; I believe there are distance reccomendations for ponies as well on that site, its in pdf form.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby lokukac » Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:10 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thank you Phil, you are a gold mine!#ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys//smiley20.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby ~*Pony Luver*~ » Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:05 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#not really the same thing... but if you are striding out lengths how do you count to know how many strides to put in?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby lokukac » Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:49 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I don't worry about longer distances than two strides. The longer distances are "playable" as Dream Merchant wrote it before.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The one and two-stride-distances are important to know to make the decision how to approach the combination. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I just step the distances out, I use metric in my mind, and I tried to learn how big of my step takes one meter.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby *Giddy Up* » Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:58 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#PL- You can either measure it out in feet, or you can "stride" it. Generally a natural walking stride (it's best to see someone else do it first to see how big the actual stride is) takes 3 of those to make one horse stride, or 4 if your stride is smaller. Or, you could get out&nbsp;a tape measure and measure your stride, or how big your feet are and then measure it that way. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Distances in feet (I can't think in metric with horses)

Postby Trinity_25 » Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:30 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#Typical combination distances based on horse strides#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#Trot in:#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#Bounce - 9' - 10'#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#One Stride - 18'#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#Canter in (Indoor striding):#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#Bounce - 11' - 12' #ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#One stride - 21'#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#Two Stride - 33'#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#Canter in (Outdoor Striding):#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#Bounce: 11'-12'#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#One Stride - 24'#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#Two Stride - 36'#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#The distances in gymnastics are determined by:#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#A) the gait of the preceeding element #ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#B) the response wanted from the horse (i.e. lengthen out, compress and use hind end more) through tightening or loosening the distances by approx 1'. Greater distance adjustments should only be done by highly expreienced professionals.#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#For example:#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#- an indoor trot-in gymnastic of bounce to one stride vertical to one stride vertical would commonly have distances of 9' - 18' - 21' due to the canter step in the middle.#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#- an indoor canter-in gymnastic of bounce to one stride vertical to one stride vertical would commonly have distances of 11'' - 21'' - 21' or 11' - 21' - 24' depending on the horse's stride and tendency to open up. (with the second option being more common due to a horse preferring to stand off more from a vertical)#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#- an indoor canter-in gymnastic of bounce to one stride vertical to one stride oxer would commonly have distances of 11'' - 21'' - 21' or 11' - 21' - 24' depending on the horse's stride and tendency to open up. . (with the first option being more common due to a horse preferring to get closer to the base on an oxer so that they are not encouraged to flatten over the distance)#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#And so on...#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Phil » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:24 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#if you are worried about your pacing the best thing to do is practice.&nbsp; Most jump rails are 12ft long, check to see if u have one around and practise walking a rail,&nbsp; if u do it right u should learn to pace out 4 equal steps of 3 ft.&nbsp; Alot of shows have a rail beside the ring for this reason to allow the riders to walk the pole whether they are aware of it or not.&nbsp; Its fairly interesting to walk out say 96 feet and then to measure it afterwards to see how accurate u are.&nbsp; I really liked in a big ring at a show working with 110 ft on a long bend to an oxer, was a great distance for a rider who could ride but a inexperience rider who checks and pulls to much would chip it quite often and rail.&nbsp; Until u can walk a rail fairly accurately, distance walking at a show or at home will probably be a hit or miss affair.&nbsp; Next time u do a jump school see if u can get a good lesson for yourself too by building the course your going to jump and measure out the lines or measures yourself and see how it works, gets better with practise.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby ~*Pony Luver*~ » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:41 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#thanks guys!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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