Would you breed to a TB stallion?

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Would you breed to a TB stallion?

Postby Dream_Merchant » Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:03 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#EM#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT color=#609a9f size=2#ed_cl#I'm going to look at a 4 year old TB stallion sometime during the week -- I was wondering who here would think of putting their mare to a TB jumping stallion?#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#For example -- say he's a nice looking horse, with correct confirmation, good movement for a TB horse etc, and has a clean and careful jump on him, snaffle mouth and ridden easily by a 21 year old female rider??#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#I always find it good asking these questions to random people, as it really gives you an idea of what people want and what they would think about doing etc. Please do post your honest opinions, and anything else you would look for in a TB stallion if you wanted to breed a jumper. After all, a WB horse is usually the more general option for people, but I know some people do put their WB and heavier mares to TB's.... any responses (good or bad) are so much appreciated!!!#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/EM#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby 2dapoint » Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:12 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Let's put it this way... Yavari, A Fine Romance... just off the top of my head.&nbsp; #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Granted, both have some *pretty decent* pedigree, performance and outstanding conformation working for them..&nbsp; Their owners work VERY hard to promote them, they are approved with more than just TB registries.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So, just because he's a TB doesn't make him worthwhile, nor does it make him not worthy of looking.&nbsp; Will you get mares to him?&nbsp; yes.&nbsp; Quality and quantity of mares?&nbsp; Depends on you, his quality and your marketing.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Frankly asking if mare owners would breed to a TB stallion is like asking if they'd breed to a chestnut stallion.&nbsp; There is much more to the decision than just him being a TB.&nbsp; Can you tell pedigree?&nbsp; performance to date?&nbsp; anything else?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#On what you've given there is just no way to say yes or no.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Dream_Merchant » Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:49 pm

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His sire is by Jevington (or he is by Jevington, I have to check) -- which is a sort after sire and grandsire of Showjumpers here in Australia.

He is off the track -- he is unraced, but went to trial and owner is deciding to sell. Naturally I want to look at him free-jump and stuff to see if he has any potential there at all to make something. It's just a general question to say would you want to see some seriously brillant jumping technique there to breed from a TB rather than a powerful WB. I know it's a tough question to answer as he had not done anything, nor do I have any photos of him or have I seen him myself. I just got offered him yesterday, and my brain has been thinking overtime to if he would be worthwhile as a stallion, *if* I like everything else about him.

I would definately try and get him registered and classifed with the AWHA (Australian Warmblood Horse Association) and maybe even the HHAA (Holstiener Horse Association of Australia) as a foundation sire. Again, I will take him if I think he will pass such tests, as my Dad is a Colt Classifer with both Associations, I know how picky they are, and I've certainly learnt how to really pick a horse to shreds from him and years of buying ex-racers myself.

He would have to impress me enough to say, "hey, he would go well with some of my mares", for me to even consider buying him. But it's all just thoughts and speculations at the moment -- and I know the question is general, but your input is really appreciated to help with the decision.
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Postby 2dapoint » Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:32 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#umm.. okay.. that's really not much more to go on to give any opinion at all.&nbsp; Still can't even trace back and say "he's got some decent sporthorse blood in him"#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Actually, it's a lot like people here in NA saying "got Northern Dancer in his pedigree" - pretty tough to show me a tb that doesn't! lol#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Sorry to seem as if I'm picking on you - but if you can't convince ME, how are you going to convince mare owners?&nbsp; The ones that have to part with their cash?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#You know the Australian Sport horse market better than we could (most of us are from NA if not Europe), but I can tell you that there always seems to be&nbsp; a good market for *decent* TB sires to cross into Warmblood registries with.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I can also tell you that if you are only going to have him approved/licensed with AUS associations, you are cutting a large chunk of your available clientele right out.&nbsp; Look to what would be acceptable/sought after in Europe and NA, what the requirements are to ship semen there from where you are, what registries require - as well as your own of course!&nbsp; You may find that he is a very nice horse - and that it just isn't financially feasible to stand him to any but your own.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Sorry, still waay to vague to be of much (if any) help at all.&nbsp; But have fun looking!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
Due to interpretational difficulties inherent in written communications, I respectfully suggest you refer to your coach for the answer; Imitation is still the sincerest form of flattery. Thank you, it's quite a lovely feeling to be so appreciated.
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Postby TrueColours » Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:10 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The Thoroughbred market has been very good to me over the years. Its the cornerstone of our breeding program and 100% of the foals we sell are 100% TB's, and most end up in show homes in the US and now overseas in Europe, with enquiries now coming in from Capetown, South Africa as well.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#We have also been very fortunate in getting some fabulous Warmblood mares in to be bred to Guaranteed Gold this breeding season - elite Hanoverian dressage mares, fabulous dressage orientated Trakehner mares, imported retired Open Jumper Hanoverian mares from Europe, etc, etc so it *appears* that the tide may be changing a bit. Instead of breeders looking to breed their OTTB mares to fashionable WB stallions, we are now seeing&nbsp; fabulously well bred WB mares being bred to our TB stallion&nbsp;based on what he can offer to the resultant foal - a total reversal of the previous trend.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So - in my opinion - if the TB stallion has something valid to offer to the WB Mare Owner as well as TB Mare Owners, he should be equally as successful as his WB counterparts are#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Did you end up buying him?&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Dream_Merchant » Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:20 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#EM#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Verdana color=#0060bf size=2#ed_cl#I haven't had a chance to look at him yet -- I've been away competiting and such, and apparently someone is stuffing them around a little bit with the "I want to buy him, but I don't want to buy him" act...#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#Hopefully I'll be looking at him next week sometime, but I've also got the thought that if he comes on board, I'll have three stallions on the property -- certainly makes for a handful when I'm on my own at the stud most of the time.#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/EM#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby goldendryad » Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:32 pm

Definately! My bf is planning on breeding his Morgan mare next spring
to have a baby for himself. He wants to cross her to a TWH stud...why?
Well he wants darker colour (the stud is black) and height. There are
no taller Morgans to be found around here. There are no TB stallions,
that we can find. He really wants to cross her to a TB. The only TB
stud we know is a 6hr drive aweay and he is booked up next season.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
Personally, I would be very interested in a TB stud. I don't care about
bloodlines. Bottom line, you can't ride a set of papers. Conformation,
personality, and training are way more important, in my books. #ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
It's what a horse can do. Does he have great confirmation? A good temperment? Talent/ability? #ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
Then I'll breed. #ed_op#br#ed_cl#
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Postby TrueColours » Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:53 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN class=name#ed_cl##ed_op#A name=197320#ed_cl##ed_op#/A#ed_cl##ed_op#B#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl#goldendryad - wouldnt you consider shipped semen for yours or your bf's mares?#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN class=name#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN class=name#ed_cl##ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl#And then you can look for stallions in other provinces and the US as well?#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
True Colours Farm

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Postby Ruth » Sun Sep 11, 2005 1:19 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#GD does your Morgan mare have papers? I'm not saying don't do a cross, but I really think you'd be much better off to do AI from a suitable stallion, or just buy something appropriate instead of breeding to the TWH stallion because he is bigger, black and close. Has she had any foals? If she hasn't chances are the foal won't end up being much bigger than her anyway. Even if she has, well, I bred my 14.1hh Morgan mare to a 16.1hh&nbsp;Trakehner stallion and the resulting foal is 14.1hh at 4. I also bred a 16hh ASB mare to a 16.2hh Dutch stallion and the foal is MAYBE 15hh at 3, and looks to be done growing.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I did a breakdown of what it costs to raise a foal to the age of 3 in a thread on this forum started by RioG, and while I know you're in an area where it is cheaper to keep horses, really, if you're looking for a bigger, black horse you'll be much further ahead to go buy one that already exists rather than trying to make your own, because there's a very good chance you won't get what you want.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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TB stallion

Postby Hope03 » Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:04 pm

I am purchasing a TB stallion this weekend who I will be using for breeding my draft x mares. I have two of his babies off of a clyde mare and I couldn't have wished for anything better, in temperment and conformation. They make good sport horses. If he is well behaved and has good conformation I would say go for it and advertise and hope for the best. I have my guys stud fee at $400 but thats including mare care. Which I see as being very reasonable. I don't see why people wouldn't breed to him for a quality sport horse.
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Postby Kobau » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:01 am

Just as an off topic. remember the both pure and part Morgan registries
don't allow AI breeding, or at least didn't a couple years ago when i
thought about it for one of my Morgan mares.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
If the stallion was good like the hypothetical one you are talking
about DM. Then yes I would consider breedign to a TB stud, with my TB
mares. That is me, if the stallion is good i'd seriously consider.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
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Postby goldendryad » Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:27 am

LOL beleive me, myself and others have tried to put him off from
breeding to the TWH. Yes she is papered, and has had several foals (she
was pretty much a brood mare for a few years before we bought her). Why
he likes the TWH is because a horse came to our barn for a 4-H clinic
and he was gorgeous. He was part TWH, part Morgan and just lovely. Not
super tall, but black with a long mane and tail and was really stylish.
My bf just adored that horse. He thinks that horse is one of the most
beautiful horses he's seen. Hence why he wants to try to breed one like
it.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
I've never seen a Morgan advertised for A.I. so I just thought like
Kobau, that it wasn't available. But it is something to look into. I
know TB's don't do A.I. either in their own breed, but it is an option
for crosses.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
As for height, we are optimistic. Since her last babies have all been
quite tall...taller than her, but not off of particularly tall studs.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
As for finding a pre-existing black or dark bay horse that my bf
likes...that has proved hard. My bf doesn't like QH's or paints...so
that eliminates the majority of horses around here. He likes things
like TB's, TB crosses, TWH's, Morgans and Saddlebreds....which are not
so common. Unless he makes an offer on that really nice black horse
that he really liked.....he thought about it.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
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Postby Ruth » Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:01 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Some&nbsp;TB stallions are available AI, you just can't get Jockey Club papers for the foal, which isn't an issue when crossing with a Morgan anyway. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I don't know about Morgans because the Morgan breeder I knew stood at least 5 stallions, and if she wanted different bloodlines would usually buy a new mare to get them, she didn't breed to outside stallions much.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Well, the height thing doesn't sound too bad, I know I have a TB/QH mare who is only 15.2 that has gigantic foals, so much so that I won't breed her to a big stallion or one that is known to throw size (Popeye K for example). #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Still, you only have a 50% chance of getting a black foal. I say be patient, keep your eyes open and sooner or later you will find your bigger, black horse. Any Canadien breeders out your way? Surely there is someone who breeds Percheron X's?&nbsp;Breeding is&nbsp;a big gamble and expensive.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby *Southwinds* » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:16 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I would (and have) bred to TB stallions. In fact with the mare I have I would only breed to a TB.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I think that it is important that the TB stallions stay in the market - they are very good horses, and not everyone wants a WB of some sort. (I know it all depends on the mare and what the owner thinks would make the best cross for their mare. This is just my personal opinion.)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The only think I would look for is a proven show record. (other than the usual conformation, attitude, etc) I, myself, want a jumper stallion. I would like to see the show record to prove it.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Look at A Fine Romance - very successful TB stud who has the show record to prove himself.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I say go for it! Work with him, show him, advertise and see what happens. If it doesnt work you can always geld him. Its worth a try.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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