Your thoughts on feeding

[graciespook]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm going through a difficult time with my boarding facility due to feeding. We have two trains of thought on this matter. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I was boarding earlier this year at another barn where my horse was doing well on a combination of Athlete and Hi-Fat Hi-Fibre. We have always added some oil and flax to his diet. He has been switched over to a hefty meal of a sweet feed mix (unsure if 12% or not) and a LOT of beet pulp. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#What are your thoughts on beet pulp? He seems not to be thriving on this diet and in fact losing some weight. I find him way too up right now (partly due to lack of riding because of our move, but I've never seen him this 'nuts' before) and I just don't agree with her. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#He's a hard keeper, a TB, but once the diet is right, does very well. He's a very good eater, very food motivated. Any help would be appreciated. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#If he was doing well before see about switching back. Personally I like beet pulp, but maybe your horse doesn't do well on sweet feed. Hard keepers can be tricky! If the horse is losing weight since he has switched feed that should be adequate reason to discuss the issue with the BO.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Keetee]

My TB was a hardkeeper but since getting oil, which we started about 7
years ago, he has become a relatively easy keeper - still gets very
large amounts of feed but maintains his weight well, even got fat last
year!  I don't know if horse's metabolism slows down as they age,
as it does in people.  If this is true then this could be part of
the reason my TB is an easier keeper now.  Either way, I do think
that oil is a good way to keep weight on.  The only negative thing
I have heard about it is that you have to watch absorption of vitamin
E.  #ed_op#br#ed_cl#
In general I think it is best to feed as little concentrated feed
(grain) as possible.  From what I have read, feeding oil is one
way to put some fat on your horse without the sugar that makes them
hyper and without having to feed a ton of extra grain.  Probably
the best thing to do is to talk to a feed specialist and see what they
say.  #ed_op#br#ed_cl#

[Piaffing]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Keep the beet pulp and change the sweet feed. Most horses don't do well on it.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Patricia]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Well if it ain't broke don't fix it.  I would go back to what was working.  My TB is on HF HF and I top dress with Tri-Max from Purina...higher in fat content!  Would work like top dressing w/Athlete.  He is quiet on this feed and seems to do well.  I don't like beet pulp--more trouble than it is worth.  You can easily increase HF HF without any attitude.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Some boarding barns will allow you a credit and you can bring in your own feed.  I used to pre-bag each feeding and include supplements.  That way I knew he got what was his.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[graciespook]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thats something to think about Patricia...the only problem is, I'm already paying a lot of money and to pay for extra grain is something I didn't really want to do. I don't find the beet pulp is helping, but he looked better last night. Without his flax and oil he tends to drop a lot, and had always been a hard keeper without them. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Does anyone have any information on the pros and cons of beet pulp?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[chenders01]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Gracie, I don't have any statistics on beetpulp.  They feed it at my barn, in the winter, for the hard keepers.  Dali was on it all last winter.  I don't know if it made any difference for him or not, as we had to increase his HFHF as well, to keep his weight on.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Re. your horse, I would get him OFF sweetfeed altogether.  It's going to make him higher than a kite.  What would be better is HFHF.  It won't make him hot but will put weight on him, especially combined with the beetpulp.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[jax]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Personally I don't like beetpulp.  I find that it is just a "plumper" and doesn't really make a difference - as soon as you take them off of it, the plumpness goes away.  I prefer a good high fat feed, or corn oil, or flax.  If your horse's attitude has changed, he either needs the sweetfeed cut down and oil added, or remove it altogether and replace it with something that works.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Chisholm]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Ok I use to not be a fan of beet pulp.  Until I learned why it's good form them according to profs at Guelph U.   It's an extremely good source of digestable fibre that is good for their hindgut.    I feed it too my guy and it sure doesn't hurt. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#And I don't like sweetfeed at all!  I use 12% pellets and HFHF.  And lots of corn oil.  And Chis is in the best condition he has ever been in.  Horses need lots of fat and fibre and very little sugar and protien for work.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#When feeding sweetfeed, just as the name says you are feeding pure sugar.  It was evented as a way to make feeding cheaper to larger herds long before extruded foods were introduced.  I wish someone would just take it off the market. Just my opinion, don't flame me.  LOL#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[2dapoint]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Rather than take *our* word for it... research it!!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Beetpulp DOES have some extraordinary benefits to it.  But.   The better thing for your horse (from the sounds of it) would be oil.  Any type works (no, not motor or mineral - lol).  But, it is SO high in caloric content (2000 calories to the cup) AND has the extra *benefit* of possibly helping out if your horse happens to have one of 2 conditions - one being EPSM (I believe?) which CAN be diagnosed with a tissue biopsy and makes it almost impossible for them to use calories from ingredients normally contained within sweetfeeds, or ulcers.  Yes, there ARE methods for diagnosis and treatment of ulcers - but both are expensive and invasive.  Oil tends to help the tummy lower the acid content enough that normal mucusal linings can reform for protection and pain relief.  Actually, for THAT you could also include a handful of baking soda (get it cheap in bulk from your feed store).  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Oil CAN be messy, but there are ways around that too... like Greenhawk carries a "pump" that fits in place of a normal cap for most oil containers and will deliver 1 perfect liquid ounce with each depression.  So you can request "8 pumps" (or 8 ounces) per feeding for staff.  No muss no fuss.  Of course, YOU get to be the one to do the refills.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#IF you go that route, start slowly (one pump per feeding) and GRADUALLY work up to NO MORE than 1/3 of his daily caloric intake through the oil.  You won't harm him.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#If you think I'm full of ... you know.... ask your vet or equine nutritionist... Wouldn't be a bad idea to do so anyways - just to make sure you're satisfying your heart about all possible concerns!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Tinkerbell27]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Hey all, #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Iam just wondering if anyone knows if you can buy beet pulp in a smaller bag? I use to use it years ago, would like to start useing it again but a normal size bag is just way too I wouldnt use a whole bag for the winter. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I would be buying from a Master Feeds dealer. Please feel free to PM me,.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thanks Tink#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[graciespook]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#He already is on oil and flax.....he is looking better, but I think its from sheer volume. I'll see how he does on this, but lately he's been very 'up' so we may have to change. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Tink - I find that the BP pellets hold up very well over time. I've had a bag last more than the winter without problems. Plus it isn't expensive, so even if you do have to toss some it's not a big deal.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#GS - ask the BO about a credit for bringing in your own grain - not just paying extra with no rebate. I allowed my boarder to do this. I budget for $30/month in grain as part of board, so I gave her that off her board, but she bought her own grain. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Jakesterd]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Three columns that might pertain to this thread just enough to justify a read:#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Beet pulp #ed_op#A href="http://www.gaitpost.com/articleitem.asp?articleid=23"#ed_cl#http://www.gaitpost.com/articleitem.asp?articleid=23#ed_op#/A#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thin horses #ed_op#A href="http://www.gaitpost.com/articleitem.asp?articleid=59"#ed_cl#http://www.gaitpost.com/articleitem.asp?articleid=59#ed_op#/A#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Feeding fat #ed_op#A href="http://www.gaitpost.com/articleitem.asp?articleid=13"#ed_cl#http://www.gaitpost.com/articleitem.asp?articleid=13#ed_op#/A#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Plus one other thing. Why blame the feed? Have you considered the simple fact that your horse may not be happy in his new barn. Just because it is better for you, does not mean it is better for him. He may not like the people, the stall, the air ventillation, the barn dog or who the h knows what else. He was obviously happy at the old barn. Whats so different? #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#People dont always do well in new homes, offices etc. because of some environmental stress. Horses are no different. Look beyond the feed. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Jake#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[graciespook]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thank you for the information Jake. I caught your article in Gaitpost this month when it was passed around the office. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#We have checked teeth, dewormed him, but you may be right--it may not be the right place for him. He seems happy enough, but his head bobbing has returned (which he used to do on the crossties, which he stopped doing at the last place) as well as his inability to concentrate. I'm not sure whether this is a change in diet or environmental conditions. Don't get me wrong--he's well taken care of at the barn, but it's difficult for me to discuss any of my concerns or my feeding ideas to the owners, or even on a public board, as they are reputable and do the best that they possibly can for their clients. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I see some improvement in the weight, but now he's been a little up, which he never was before. Could this be the sweet feed? I found he was so much better on extruded feed with oil and flax. We also had him on some alfalfa cubes in the evening that were soaked, as well as good quality hay. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I guess I'm looking for back up, but I've been on the fence about beet pulp for a long time. I've seen it work well for some horses, and not so much for other horses. When a  friend of ours, who took some equine nutritionist courses gave the thumbs down for beet pulp, I trusted that that was the right course instead of investigating it for myself and reading more on the issue. I felt, from what she told me that the beet pulp was more of a filler, and did not have a positive or adverse affect on my horse. I guess the old saying stands--'if it ain't broke--don't fix it'. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#We are bringing our horse home next spring, probably in April. I want to develop the best feeding plan for him possible. There is a nice pasture which is approx 10 acres that we are splitting up to rotate. I've always collected manure from the fields on a regular basis when they were at home, and he'll have a friend. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The best thing about it, is I know how much our horse enjoys our company. He's been so people oriented, and responds to a kind, yet firm hand. While he is in training for competition, he's still treated like a horse, and I think the change from a huge 8 acre paddock with several other horses to a small 1/4 acre paddock with a horse who's more rough on him, may be the answer here. He likes his turnout where he can stretch his legs and play. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thank you for the information, and giving me more things to think about. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[ArabJumper]

Beet pulp is great.   Use a probiotic to help his gut digest and absorb the nutrients.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
Ive had a lot of TB's. High fat seems to help. I never cared for the
sweetfeeds for them at all. Use an oil like CLO, olive or flax.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
If he was good before, go back to that diet. #ed_op#br#ed_cl#

[*Giddy Up*]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm a fan of HF HF, and beet pulp. I think those are some of the best for TB's.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#From my experience, he could be "up" because of the sweet feed. Can you have him taken off that? I know sweet feed makes Zippy go loopy (she's a TB). #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Zippy gets beet pulp, HF HF, and Tri-max. They are also supposed to get some flax and apple cider vinegar with their feed as a little extra.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Patricia- With the Tri-Max, do you find your horse is staying level headed? Zippy was put on it because of how much fat it has (even more than HF HF) and has seemed so-so on it- well, debating on whether its the feed or weather. She was fine, then for a few weeks she went loopy and was taken off of it, and now has been put back on and seems fine. So we're thinking the weather. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#