WNV vaccine

[Hope03]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Since I am new to the board I am not sure if this has been discussed before but I thought I would mention it.  How many of you horse owners give the WNV vaccine to your horses?  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Patricia]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Without a doubt I give the vaccine for WN.  I have 6 horses.  I am in a high risk area--we had horses died a few years back just miles down the road near the river--A breeding haven for mosquitos.  Never any side affects--even gave it to my mare in foal.  The weanlings were vaccinated too.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Eileen]

#ed_op#TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"#ed_cl##ed_op#TBODY#ed_cl##ed_op#TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"#ed_cl##ed_op#TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off"#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#I have been giving my guys the WNV vaccine as well.  My horses have had no ill effects from the vac. however I have heard that some horses do have a reaction, some recover, some do not.  It is sort of a crap game, damned if you do and damned if you don't ...My vet encourages his clients to get the vac.  #ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#Again it is a personal decision that you must make for your horses.  #ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/TD#ed_cl##ed_op#/TR#ed_cl##ed_op#TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"#ed_cl##ed_op#TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on"#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV id=hotbar_promo#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/TD#ed_cl##ed_op#/TR#ed_cl##ed_op#/TBODY#ed_cl##ed_op#/TABLE#ed_cl#

[Hope03]

I don't mean to scare people but I thought I would post this website that I was shown. My neighbours horse aborted her baby but still went through the whole pregnancy and showed signs of being pregnant. A friend at school horse had a foal 9 months into the pregnancy and was born inside out. My riding instructor bred to mares and both absorbed the baby. This was all after the vet administered the vaccine. My horses do not get the shot and the foal that was born here was healthy and gorgeous. I was talking to my farrier and asked them about it and they have said all the horses that they have seen get the shot have a reaction, some even go dead lame. Of course it may help some but our area seems to not be doing so well with it. I talked to a girl from cambridge and she told me her horse started to have a seizure shortly after the shot was given. I worked with a vet that specializes in standardbreds and he was not suggesting it to anyone. If they asked him for it of course he would give it but he told me that he had told people to give it the year before but didn't suggest it anymore. hmmm I wonder why? He wasn't allowed to go into further detail. Anyway here is the site javascript:ol('http://lost-foals-group.4t.com/photo6.html'); as I said I am sorry if I scare everyone I just thought everyone has the right to know.

[Patricia]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Your not scaring anyone as it is OLD news.  That website doesn't have anything that substantiates that it IS the vaccine.  MANY mares abort or absorb for various reasons.  They can not just blame a vaccine....All my horses are fine.  My mare in foal and her resulting foal.  The babes got their vaccines without a problem.  I believe it is an American website of people jumping on the bandwagon...they don't know what caused the aborts....There are many reasons why this happens.  Mare's health, infection, poor diet and management, or a foal that has a problem in utero will absorb or still born...Sometimes it just happens...Just like people some have still born, or misscarry.  There is not always a reason it just happens.  It's natures way....maybe the baby would be born with problems and it is miscarried to prevent and unhealthy birth.  DON'T blame a vaccine.  Some horse could have an allergic reactions, like some do to the flu vaccine...BUT not lose foals....#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#A few years earlier there were many problems on the east cost/Kentucky area with breeding issues.  Turns out there was a virus in the area and caused the mares to almost become sterile or lose their foals.   It is documented.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I am in a high risk area....there have been no documented cases since we started vaccination protocol....2 years now.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Tinkerbell27]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I've heard of many ppl having problems with the vaccine, I myself have not had any problems to date. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#My vet doesnt force a treatment or vaccine to his clients, he will give you all the info that he can on any treatment or new or old, he really informs his clients.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I feel with anything  new in the health fields weither it be human or animal there will be likes and dislikes, I feel the only way to be prepaired is to research all options.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Tink#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Hope03 - don't get all wound up about the Lost Foals Group. Most of them (if any) have not had necropsies done, and unless someone has had one done you can't say it was because of the WNV vaccine. It could be for a myriad of other reasons. Only 70% of breedings result in a live foal. Even the people who say oh well I've never had problems before I gave the vaccine - well, it was probably not the vaccine, sooner or later most of us have problems of some sort, and their good luck was maybe up anyway.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#There has been further testing done at a university in Kentucky that found NO correlation between the WNV vaccine and abortion or deformities.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#We have vaccinated our broodmares for it for 3 years now and haven't had any problems. Your mares aren't going to be much good to you if they're dead of WNV, are they?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#When I first discovered that website I reacted like you did, but there is no need. The people relating stories can't back it up with necropsies, and the testing done in Kentucky has shown there is no reason to believe there is any problem with using the vaccine for pregnant mares - just not in the first 60 days of pregnancy, like any other vaccine. There was an email circulating about someone whose mare aborted due to the WNV vaccine, but what it failed to mention was that she vaccinated the mare at around day 40! Of course the mare aborted - she gave the vaccine too early. The Lost Foals Group takes incomplete information like that and uses it to back up their own beliefs.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Most of us have seen this website and learned to disregard it, it is nothing new. Allergic reactions can occur to vaccines of any kind - my CSH gelding has to have bute and an IV anti-inflammatory for every vaccine he gets as he has nasty site reactions, another person I know has a mare who has to have the IV anti-inflammatory as well for vaccines, her intestines inflame when she gets vaccinated. These two in particular react mostly to the #ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#rabies#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl# vaccine, although my gelding does seem to react a little worse to the WNV/encephalitis, again I'd rather he didn't die of either of those two diseases, and we have had cases of encephalitis in our area.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Hope03]

who performs the necropsies you were talking about?

[Gemina]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I always had my horse vaccinated for WNV and he never had any ill effects. Better to be safe than sorry.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Hope03 - if your local horse vet could not do it, Guelph can.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Hope03]

so the people that are making money off of the shot that may in fact kill the horse are also making money off of these and will not come out to tell the truth because think of all the money they will lose. No offense is intended for any vets on the site.

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#WNV is #ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#far#ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl# more likely to kill a horse than the vaccine. UofGuelph does not make or market the WNV vaccine, so what exactly would their vested interest be? My vet may sell me the vaccine, but I can assure you it is not so my mares will abort their foals so that he may then perform a necropsy on the fetus. Which none of them have anyway.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#He also vaccinates his own broodmares for it and so does his receptionist.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#He doesn't recommend giving the flu vaccine in pregnant mares, so why would that be any different if he was trying to make money on vaccines that aren't safe for pregnant mares?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Sorry, that argument holds no water.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#There's no giant WNV vaccine conspiracy out there.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#You can vaccinate your horses or not for WNV as you wish.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I however, see no reason to stop vaccinating mine for it. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Hope03]

Well I will drop the whole subject sorry for any offense caused. I am sure they have improved it since the mares I know lost their foals, which was a year ago. The owners then did not believe it was the vaccine so had no testing done. Again sorry to have caused offense!

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#No offense was taken. I think what Patricia and I are saying is that the Lost Foals Group is nothing new, and there is no reason to think that what they believe about the WNV vaccine is true. There is a lot of misinformation out there, which is in some part due to their website, but they have no scientific proof. There is however, scientific proof that there is no correlation between the vaccine and abortion. I wish I knew where to find the link for that study, I would post it for you. Mares abort for many, many reasons and you cannot blame the WNV vaccine without testing. If no necropsy was done no-one can really say why the mares aborted - unless you knew they had EHV which causes abortion in 80% of mares exposed to it.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#As a breeder I gave the issue a lot of thought, but as I am in a mosquitoey area which does have mosquito populations with WNV - I will vaccinate. I don't want to lose any of my horses to a disease which can be vaccinated for.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Patricia]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN class=postbody#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl#QUOTE:  so the people that are making money off of the shot that may in fact kill the horse are also making money off of these and will not come out to tell the truth because think of all the money they will lose. No offense is intended for any vets on the site#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN class=postbody#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN class=postbody#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl#I don't know how you can make this sort of comment.  Guelph OVC does all kinds of research and life saving operations daily.  I know first hand--my gelding was there was colic surgery.  #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN class=postbody#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl#I hold my Vet in high regard.  I take his word and information to heart.  He has my animal's best interest at heart.  It is NOT about making money but about taking care of his clients pets and horses.  He is there for me in the good times and the bad.  #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN class=postbody#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT size=2#ed_cl#It sounds to me you didn't do enough research.  I did my research and SO DOES MY VET!  My Vet is up on all the latest research and stats.  He know if and when and where the infected horses/areas are.  So far, nothing in our area for 2 years.  This is due to the fact of vaccine protocol--Meaning more people are vaccinating.  NONE of his clients (and that covers a VERY large area) have ever lost a foal to the vaccine.  If you know anything about breeding horses, they can lose foals for MANY reasons....Research some more.......#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Hope03]

Patricia I never said anything meaning to offend vets. I am glad you have a great one. I know most of the people around here that do breed horses, most are just pleasure horses but some are bred. My riding instructor bred 2 mares and both absorbed after the vaccine was given (second time) at the recommended day (vet told her what day). The next year one absorbed again after the vaccine and the one went full term but had a problem at birth and needed to be rushed to Guelph and he was quite delayed like a premature would be like. My neighbour bred AI and the vet came and gave the shots on the recommended day after the horse was confirmed in foal. The mare was empty the next time the vet came which was at the end of the 11 months. Another foal was aborted late into the pregnancy and it was born inside out. The only foals in the area born were ones that the dam was not vaccinated. Maybe it is the vet in our area! I don't know, you are right that i can't say its the vaccination but this year no one around us vaccinated and there were healthy foals born. I didn't mean to start an argument that would make others angry. I was wondering how many other people had a problem with it. Only 3(?) people responded saying they vaccinate so we still don't know if any of them did. I am sorry I didn't mean to offend you.

[Patricia]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Like I said...I am not offended...this is a discussion.  Although, from what you tell me....No vet said it was the vaccine or did any tests to verify.  Many horses absorb foals....talk to many breeders.  Often they go to Guleph OVC for difference situations.  Just like people they often have complications in labour and delivery that is why they go to a hospital.  I have had 3 pregnancies and only 2 resulted in babies (human pregnancy...I had an ectopic pregnancy...I had to have life saving surgery).  These are things that should have been investigated...not just blaming a vaccine.   That mare that went full term and was empty as you call it could have absorb any time along the way.  You don't state if they were given a neumabort shot.  It prevents aborting.  It is a virus they can get and causes them to abort.  It is given 3 times during gestation.  I have my mare's checked in foal at 5 months on the first shot.  Then I administer the others myself at 7 and 9 months.  Ask them if they give the neumabort vaccine.  The mare should also have a swab done to check prior to breeding to verify there is no infection and clean to breed.  Horses are sensitive creatures and often don't carry to terms for various reason, age, health, infection, improper feed program resulting in a vitamin mineral dyficiency, no neumabort vaccinations to name a few.  Absorbing is sometimes mother nature's way of eliminating a foal who has a deformity or serious health problem and it is absorbed...like people.  Ask you local breeders if they give neumabort...  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Also Hope, if this occured in a very specific area, it could be like Patricia mentioned EHV-1 which is what Pneumabort protects against, or it is possible that your vet got a bad batch of WNV vaccine. That certainly can happen. Bad batches occur with rabies vaccines too, I know we had 2 horses react to a brand new package of rabies vaccine this spring and our vet reported it.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[goldendryad]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#My horse is vaccinated for WNV. But my bf's mare isn't. We got her too late in the year for it to really be worth it. Plus she was living in a pretty swampy, mosquito area so we figured she probably already built up some natural protection. I talked to a vet at the university in the equine disese department who is doing a WNV study and thought it's a possibility. He said horse owners have options: vaccinate, or protect their horses from bug bites or do nothing.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#But there are people who have lost their horses due to WNV. It is more likely to affect the young, the old, and the sick/immune system compromised animals more than healthy ones.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Losing a foal happens. Unless there is proof I doubt the vaccine aborts/damages the foals. Our vet recommends it for pregnant mares so that the protection passes to the unborn foal.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Incidently...there was a Warmblood breeder here (SK) who was blaming a pesticide for causing her mares to have babies with crooked legs and weak limbs, some of her foals were weak and died. I don't know what happened with that...it was last year.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#GD, that is a perfect example of a situation that the Lost Foals Group would blame on WNV vaccine. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#And pesticide makes far more sense as a reason for things like that to happen, obviously pesticides are toxic. So there's another thought for you Hope. It wouldn't have to have been the mare owners using it, could have been a neighbor.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#