Another "stocking up" question ...

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Another "stocking up" question ...

Postby TrueColours » Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:54 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I am stymied and after reading Kaleena's post, I wonder if there is some viral bug going around ...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#here is my sad tale ... any and all suggestions would be MOST appreciated ...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#My Whatever mare came in from New Zealand about a month ago (beginning of Oct) and seemed just fine for about 7-10 days at which time she developed a volatile case of the runs. No temperature, and no outward signs of being ill - just this projectile diarreah ...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#She was eating, but very picky with her grain and carrots, but wolfed down any/all hay we fed her.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Her eyes were also runny but with the heavy winds we were having and her blue eyes and bald face, we figured her eyes were running from the wind in them.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The goop was scalding her face so Ive been vaselining her and putting aloe on her face as well and she then developed some goopiness in her eyes, so had her on some antibiotic eye stuff as well which seems to have done the trick. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#We gave her the 911 Emergency probiotic paste and then put her on the Biotic 8 feed through probiotic paste and slowly she returned to normal and her appetite for her grain and carrots is now way up there - she starts pulling on the carrot bag if I dont give them to her quick enough!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Faux Finish - around the beginning of November, I noticed that she wasnt quite right. Not sick, but not right. Stood in the corner of her stall, looked perky enough, but didnt want her carrots (BIG red flag for her!) and didnt touch her grain.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I was picking out her stall and watching her and she started pawing in the corner and I thought "Oh Sh%!" and then about 5 minutes later she went up to her feed bucket and started wolfing down carrots and feed so I thought maybe a gas bubble, now its gone and all is okay ...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#She did this again 2 days before the Royal and then 10 minutes later bounced back again and all was okay. Totally normal temps throughout ...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Came home from the Royal, everything seemed okay, and then last Wednesday she and Whatever developed one heck of a case of the runs. Totally projectile. Again - no temps - 99 and change in the morning and 101+ in the afternoon after they came in from being outside.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So - we have started them on Sulfa as of last Thursday and the 911 probiotic as well as the feed through Biotic 8 for both of them.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The runs have now stopped, but as of yesterday, both of them developed stocking up in both hind legs - VERY noticeable. FF didnt have heat in hers, but Whatever had heat in one hind leg but not the other. 101.5 temp last night and 99 and change this morning.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Both are perky, eating, not lame but FF last night for about 5 minutes or so started the pawing business in her stall again in the corner where again I say that she isnt sick but isnt 100% right either ...  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Started them both on bute last night as well ...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#This morning (I havent seen them yet) all 4 legs (both hinds) are like stovepipes on both of them, so the bute hasnt touched it at all. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I will be starting them on Naquasone today as well to see if that reduces the inflammation, plus cold hosing, plus bandaging#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I am at wits end as is the stable owner. I trust him implicitly and between the pair of us (he used to run boarding barns and breeding farms) I *KNOW* that we have seen a lot between the pair of us and we are equally befuddled as to what this might be, what else to try and what tests we can even have run to try and pinpoint this more.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Ive got no problem calling the vet out - none at all - but short of cold hosing, exercise as much as possible, bute and naquasone, I cant think of anything else to try except possibly Azium or Dex if this happens to be an allergic reaction to something???#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#They are the only 2 horses in the barn with this, their pasture mate - a 3 yr old filly is totally 100% okay, so it cant be the hay, shavings, etc unless by chance, there was a poisonous weed in one or two flakes of hay that caused this reaction and they were the ones that got it???#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Oh - and NO cuts on either of them. We thought initially that because of the bad diarreah and residue on their legs for a few days that perhaps the leg was stocking up in reaction to that, but I think there would be some signs of scalding - missing hair, rednessm scaling, etc which there isnt ...  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#Anyone have ANY brilliant ideas on this one???#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#many thanks - very much appreciated ...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby pmc » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:27 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#You sure have covered all the bases, TC! #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys//smiley20.gif"#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'd be inclined, at this point, unless improvement is immediate, to get the vet involved.  He may want you to stop all meds/treatments (including adding anything else to the mix) in case they may be masking (but not curing) the underlying problem.  The only other thing that comes to my mind with stocking up is a possible Selenium deficiency, but I can't think why that would cause such a sudden and dramatic change.  Are these two horses getting some/normal  turnout?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Patricia » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:29 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Well it is quite common to come back from the ROYAL with 'who know what.'  There are SO many horses and they bring in all kinds of bugs.  Even if they are not nose to nose it is airborne and your in close quarters there.  As far as your other horse that had a long trip....could be she didn't develop an immune system to all our stuff up here and with your horse back from the Royal brought back the 'who knows what'.  I would get them out on turnout and moving...get that swelling down.  If you have an indoor with nice footing a good trot around can't hurt.  Your doing everything humanly possible...If only everyone took care of their horses like you do.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Ruth » Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:03 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#No real good ideas, I think I would call the vet, they may also have heard of other horses like this, and also tend to have good reference materials at the very least.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#My guess, and this is a guess, that the 3 different incidents are not related. Whatever may have been a little off from the long travel, new water, new bacteria and fungi to deal with in her new home. FF's colicky symptoms could be just what you thought, a little gas pocket that moved along.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#My thoughts on what you're dealing with now is that it sounds like a bug FF brought home from the Royal and passed on to Whatever, although it is strange that the pasture buddy is fine. I had some problems with 2 of my fillies having diarrhea late last fall and into early winter, no temps, and it would last for 12ish hours and then clear up, but would happen with each of them once or twice a week. My best guess on it was that with the unusually mild and late beginning to winter that they were eating something that they ordinarily wouldn't have at that time of year, and that the older horses either weren't eating it, or weren't as bothered for some reason. These 2 fillies would be the ones to eat something they shouldn't have, they are the only two I've had to get porcupined. However, their diarrhea wasn't projectile - it was very loose stools and frequent, but not projectile, and no stocking up. Sure enough once the snow came to stay and was deep enough to discourage foraging for anything other than the round bales there was no more diarrhea. Also it had been a couple of months since any horses had moved in or out, so I wasn't too concerned about viruses.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Anyway, I hope that they will be fine, and please let us know what it turns out to be and keep us updated on how they are doing.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Do you know if anyone else who took horses to the Royal has horses with these symptoms?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby xena_n_joss » Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:24 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#your horse from new zealand may have gotten salmonella from somewhere on the way and brought it in... Horses with salmonella have runny poop, dullness ect... I cant remember the other signs though. When Xena came back from Guelph she and the other horse had gotten it, there was a horse who came into guelph who had it, which is common.... #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Salmonella isnt really bad in itself, its just that it can stressfull and cause other issues. Horses get mild salmonella every once in awhile just from normal life. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Let us kinow what th vet says though... I cant say why your horses woul dbe so stocked up though... lol... #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby TrueColours » Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:20 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thanks SO much for some great insight and things to think about ...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thankfully, they both seem to be getting much better. The temps coming in today were at 99.5 (at this time yesterday they were 101.5), the legs were merely filled around the fetlocks and a bit above, but a HUGE difference from the "stovepipe legs" from the hocks down we were dealing with first thing this morning ... when you couldnt even see their fetlocks at all ... #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Instead of having both hind legs leg stovepipes, one is normal on each of them and one is up but not even CLOSE to what they were last night and this morning ...#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#They both DOVE into their supper and FF especially has a marked improvement from yesterday. She no longer looks a bit off and "not right", but back to her usual chipper, mischievous self ... Night and day as a matter of fact, so it really does seem that it was a viral bug that FF probably picked up at the Royal and brought home with her, it has run its course, and yesterday/this morning was the worst of it and now they are on the upswing, thank goodness! #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#And Patricia - that makes a LOT of sense! The reason their 3 year old pasture mate buddy hasnt picked it up is that she is used to this environment, whereas poor Whatever just got whammied yet again with a bug she has probably no immunity to at all ...#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#They are also on Naquasone today and tomorrow, we'll keep checking temps on the pair of them, their antibiotics end on Monday and crossing my fingers the worst is now over for the pair of them and we FINALLY get some freezing cold temps that should clear any bugs out of the area ... #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#Sometimes it REALLY helps to brainstorm with others. The barn owner and I sat there last night and this morning and said - okay - THIS doesnt make any sense, it CANT be Potomac or they would be lethargic and have elevated temps and they dont. #ed_op#BR#ed_cl#It cant be an abcess or a puncture wound or they'd be lame and tender and have elevated temps once again. #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#It really cant be bacterial or again - they'd have elevated temps, so by virtue of elimination we went through every scenario we could come up with any ruled them in or out one by one ... #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#...sigh ... I am SO glad that I left them today feeling much better about them than I did 24 hours ago ... #ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#Thanks a bunch, once again ... #ed_op#IMG alt=Smile src="http://www.bcriders.com/forums/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif" border=0#ed_cl# ... I REALLY appreciate all of your comments and suggestions ...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN class=postbody#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl#
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Postby pmc » Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:32 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Glad to hear that they are on the mend, TC!  Horses are as worrisome as babies, sometimes, because all you have to go on are symptoms and the process of elimination.    #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys//smiley20.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby TrueColours » Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:37 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thanks pmc - and oh - forgot to answer one of your other questions.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Yes - they are on regular t/o - weather permitting - and since it has been so nice the last few days they've been out from about 8:00 til 4:00 pm so a full day ... so no shortage of being able to move around to their hearts content outside ...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Piaffing » Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:55 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Where I board we had a similiar cases. Most of the horses ended up getting severe diarrhea. Everyone was walking around with pink syrings of Peptobismo. Most horses were over it in 3 to 5 days. You just have to make sure they get LOTS OF WATER.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby lifeafterracing » Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:33 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#One of our fillies came down with projectile diarrhea and stocked up quite a bit at the same time.  She had been scoped two weeks earlier and had an ulcerous patch.  She was put on omeprazole and the runs and stocking up started at the end of her loading period.  Our vet thought that the flora in her gut had changed due to the omeprazole and this would be a self limiting episode.  I too was running around with Pepto and Anti-Gaz.  She also went on electrolytes, naquasone and metronidazole for a few days.  She's fine now.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#After reading these posts, I am wondering if she didn't just have some kind of bug.  Or maybe it was a combination of adjustment to the flora change and a bug.  She didn't have a temp but was quite lethargic.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby TrueColours » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:32 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#From looking through several well attended forums, it seems like this "bug" or whatever it is, is right from the east coast to the west, north to south#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Everyone is saying the same thing. One minute they are fine and you look 3 or 4 hours later and they are noticeably stocked up. Plus the projectile diarreah ...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#This was one post from a lady in Washington State:#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#
#ed_op#DIV id=post_message_986198#ed_cl#Wow, a similar thing is going on at my barn too. PHF is one of the things my vet thinks as well. Really common this time of year.#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#Several horses have diarreah, mine included. Some with coughs too. However what really piqued my interest in the original post was the swollen legs. My mare has been stocking up for the past two days, no other symptoms except the diarreah. When I got there today she was so stiff she couldn't walk, but no swelling whatsoever. All this happened in three hours, no problems at her am feeding but by the time I got there at noon she refused to move. She has an elevated temp as well but has not had one previously. Oh and yes, totally off her game, just a hang dog expression and no energy for the past few days. Vet still can't tell for sure what is going on whether it's viral, bacterial, feed-related, toxin exposure or what as each horse is having slightly different symtomology--except all have the runs.#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#Anyway, we pumped her full of Biosponge, antibiotics and banamine. She is still on her feed but all she's allowed to have is grass hay and water. All I can do now is wait and hope for the best. Thankfully, no founder or colic to deal with which I'm told can be a part of Potomoc horse fever as well.#ed_op#BR#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#If anyone finally gets a diagnosis on what ever is going on please post it right away!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
 #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So thankfully, it does seem to be something that just runs its course and thats it and you just have these weird side effects to contend with and a lot of worried owners and vets scratching their heads ...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby graciespook » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:59 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thats interesting..PHF...most people don't know the symptoms..I surely don't. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I am stumped...let us know how they are making out! #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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