shur gain vs purina?

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shur gain vs purina?

Postby panzita0 » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:29 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#-shur gain makes my pony hyper and he needs a lot of it to maintain weight#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#-purina doesn't make him hyper but I just switched so i haven't noticed any weight gain or loss even though i'm feeding him the same ammont (acutally i would say he has gained a bit but it might be a hay belly because i didn't ride him hard for like 2 weeks so ya and he was int he small paddocks so he ate a lot of hay)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#-i also noticed he was a lot more aggressive on shur gain like nippy inpaitient and very full of himself#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#has anyone noticed this or anything or have any comparisions between the two feeds#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#ooo and i forgot to mention it was the high fat high fiber product from each company that i've tried him on. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Eileen » Sun Jul 24, 2005 9:32 am

#ed_op#TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"#ed_cl##ed_op#TBODY#ed_cl##ed_op#TR height="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on" width="100%"#ed_cl##ed_op#TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off"#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#I don't use either one of the feeds you mention...I use Master Feeds products.  #ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#But really, either of the companies would use the same grains coming out of the same fields going in the same bags.  If the label on the bag that you are using says X amount of this and so much protien and so much fat etc etc....then that is what you are feeding....regardless of the products name.  #ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#Could it be that your pony is just being an obnoxious pony sometimes...not being ridden a lot. stuck in a small paddock. Perhaps picked on by the larger horses etc.  Wanting some one on one with you and any warm body that does not kick back or chase him..#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/TD#ed_cl##ed_op#/TR#ed_cl##ed_op#TR UNSELECTABLE="on" hb_tag="1"#ed_cl##ed_op#TD style="FONT-SIZE: 1pt" height=1 UNSELECTABLE="on"#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV id=hotbar_promo#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/TD#ed_cl##ed_op#/TR#ed_cl##ed_op#/TBODY#ed_cl##ed_op#/TABLE#ed_cl#
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Postby Jakesterd » Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:55 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#A high fat and Hi fibre feed is a performance feed for a horse that you are trying to limit carbohydates intake on but still want to have lots of energy without the production of sugar.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Why in the world is a horse who goes for weeks without hard riding and therefore I assume is not a performance horse getting this type of feed?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#In fact why is this horse getting grain at all"?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Hi Fat and Hi Fibre feeds are among the most misused feeds in the marketplace. They are not maintenance rations for pasture ornaments. Any horse who gets ridden only a couple of times a week is a pasture ornament.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Jake#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby panzita0 » Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:07 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#He gets it because he needs it to maintain weight. Sorry if you think I am totally wrong in feeding it but it was suggested to me by my vet when he was under weight AND a equine nutriantist told me to use it. If this horse doesn't get grain he looses weight a lot and fast. You didn't answer my question either. He is not a "proformance horse" but he isn't a lawn ornamnet. The reason I haven't been riding nearly every day is because we just moved and things are incredibly hectic with renovating a house and cleaning up a million year old cattle barn. He will be getting ridden more often I rode him yesterday, I plan on riding him today if the weather clears up and tomorrow I'm riding him. I'm sorry if this message sounds rude to you but Jake I feel you were rude by asuming he is a Lawn ornament. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Jakesterd » Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:50 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Well Im not a vet and dont make medical diagnosis and most vets dont know diddly sweet about what is in horse feeds.Most have only one 1/2  course in nutrition total. So having a vet tell you what to feed is often as usefull as having a dentist work on a heart attack.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#There are lots easier and cheaper ways to keep weight on a horse than feeding performance feed. What your vet should try and establish is why he doesnt hold his weight. Is it  digestion problem, metabolic or whatever. Find out what the problem is that needs curing. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#My bet is the equine nutritionist actually  works for a company that makes a hi fat n fibre feed. Its more profitable to sell the ration than to recommend something less profitable like beet pulp, canola oil and a smattering of rice bran in the correct proportions and amounts that will put the weight on without the hype.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#My rude 2 cents worth#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Jake#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby panzita0 » Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:10 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#sorry jake i was kinda stressed out your not rude, I'm sorry. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I do like high fat high fiber though I have been at a barn where everyone was on it which included 2 year olds horses that would never be riden and really really old ones and everything in the middle. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#A lot of people say beet pulp is just sugar and its not really all it's built up to be. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The reason he is a hard keeper is because he is a worrier, like he is very alert and very excitable (even when he was being under fed when i first saw him he was very hyper) so it is probably a metabolizum thing. He's kinda like me we have to keep out minds occupied we just can't sit and do nothing. He will play in the feild he'll trot a few steps find a patch of grass then go trotting off again.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby 2dapoint » Thu Jul 28, 2005 10:06 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Maybe Jake can help more with the whys and wheres for this#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#but for the more nervous horses, I'd slap them on Brewer's yeast right away. I learned a long time ago that megadoses of the B vitamins and zinc will work within the brain chemistry to help a horse "slow down" (kind of like with a hyperactive child).  I'd also be putting him on some sort of oil - beginning with a tablespoon and working up from there.  The oil serving a couple of purposes.  One, the weight - it has so many more calories! and two, many horses that are "worriers" and inconsistent eaters often suffer from ulcers.  Oil helps to coat the stomach and protect it from it's own acid.  Of course, the better option would be to get the medication that will clear the ulcer entirely; but I dont get the impression that you want to spend the money to have him scoped and then pay for some VERY expensive meds.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Just my 2 cents worth.  The cheap solution to gaining weight if you don't want to go the appropriate route and have the feed actually analyzed and maybe your horse too.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Doing it this way is a lot like saying "my blond boyfriend is getting fat - how do I help him?" the strong reference being that he is blonde and we are to somehow know how that makes him different and what to do about his individual issues. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Arcadia » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:31 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Whoa Jakesturd, take it down a notch.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#There are much nicer ways to get your point across.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I believe the OP was looking for suggestions......#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby horsemad! » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:45 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Aaaccccck!  #ed_op#IMG height=79 src="http://www.forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/cliparts/6.gif" width=131#ed_cl#All of my horses (pasture ornaments included) are on F&F!!!  I've been doing it wrong for soooo long...  what an idiot I (not to mention my vet and many other good horsemen friends) am.    #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby graciespook » Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:11 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I used to feed the Purina "Chow Checkers" basically something for them to eat, but I'd throw in some flax. I have been using flax for some time and have added it to my current horse's diet to boost his weight. Its high in Omega Fatty acids as well as an abundance of "stuff" that seems to work really well. I have heard of problems with the Shur-gain feeds, but I've never used them myself. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The fat and fibre is something I'm cautious of, my horse is on a mixture of that and another high energy feed, as he is in full work and needs to keep up his weight/energy under hard work. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I also use corn oil. Jakesterd is right though--there are many alternatives to actually loading them up on feed. Feed little-feed often. I find that a supplement thats going to pack on weight, or even maintain it, is easier on them than actually giving them very large amounts of grain. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby Jakesterd » Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:45 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Actually beet pulp is one of the most under rated feeds in the world. There isnt much sugar in it because its the residual product after the sugar is extracted. There may be 2% molasses added to help make the pellet hard but there is probably way more molasses in F & F than most beet pulp.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Read this column I wrote a couple of years ago. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#A href="http://gaitpost.com/articleitem.asp?articleid=23"#ed_cl#http://gaitpost.com/articleitem.asp?articleid=23#ed_op#/A#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Simple and cheap trick to see if you can quiet down Mr. Nervous.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Find a real feed mill. Preferentially one that makes dairy feed. Ask them for a kilogram of Magnesium Oxide. It may be trade named MagOx or BayMag. Both products contain between 56 and 58% magnesium.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The feed companies pay less than 75 cents a kilo for the stuff so dont get hosed too bad. Feed your nervous horse a teaspoon full in each grain meal. If he is over 1000 pounds go for 1.5 teaspoons..#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Magnesium works in the brain and quiets some of the receptors etc. It might just do the trick for you and calm Mr. Goofynuts down.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Most solutions arent expensive unless someone is trying to sell you something!!!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Jake#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Edited to add the following.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The above dose is a loading dose for the first 10 days. If it looks to be working drop the dose by 1/2 and see what happens. Adjust if necessary#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Jake#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
Last edited by Jakesterd on Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Trufflemaker » Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:33 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#How interesting... Among the supplements I give my ADHD child are B complex, zinc, magnesium, and DHA (essential fatty acids... like what you get in flaxseed). They really do help keep him on an even keel. Good to know it works for horses too! Although I don't know how one would diagnose ADHD in a horse haha.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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Postby panzita0 » Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:36 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#We'll...hmm lol a lot of food for thoguht#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I think I will keep him on the purina high fat high fiber because he has settled down (for riding and grooming) and is starting to maintain weight but I might start him on the corn oil I had him on that when he was really underweight when I first got him and he was getting beetpulp and sweet feed too but it was mostly just sweetfeed because the barn owner wasn't the nicest and wouldn't feed anything for me so i could only feed once a day and blah that ment i couldn't feed a lot of it and so on and so on lol thankgod i have my own place now! Anyways I think i will feed the oil again and I'll see how it goes from there.. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#OOh now aout my other horse, haha sorry...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#He's basically getting nothing I give him about a quarter cup of the high fat high fiber just so he has something to eat when the other guy gets his. I've started to train him though and we're getting into more than just walking now so I think I MIGHT need to bump his feed up. I say might because he's kind of over weight, well right now he's nearly perfect but when we first got him he was very overweight and now ya he's nearly perfect just a little bit round. I'd like him to get into jumping and I've been lunging him over small things...so anyone have any suggestions for him? He's a bit bigger he's about 15.3 and built like he's got a bit of draft in him even though he's pure standardbred. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
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