time limit rules for PT80

[KimW]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm just trying to find out what the official rule is for time on cross-country at the PT80 level.  I only event occassionally but when I started the lower levels only had penalties if you went too fast.  There were no time penalties for going too slow.  I was at an event recently and was told you were eliminated if you were slower than twice the optimum time. My horse got eliminated when she gave me a fight out in the middle of no where (ie. between jumps not anywhere near a jump) not wanting to go any further.  When I finally got her to keep going she jumped the rest of the course fine.  I thought we had finished ok but would just have a million time faults.  Then I found out we were eliminated.  Is this a new official rule or a rule just set by the facility I was at??  Thanks for your help.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Andy]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: Symbol; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore"#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Arial Narrow" color=#000000 size=5#ed_cl#This is the rule from the OHTA web site. My son did pt80 and was under the same assumption as you but found out  there was penilty points for being to slow.  #ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: Symbol; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore"#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face="Arial Narrow" color=#000000 size=5#ed_cl#In the rules at OHTA I could not find any distintions between the levels#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: Symbol; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore"#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: Symbol; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-family: Symbol"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="mso-list: Ignore"#ed_cl#·#ed_op#SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'"#ed_cl#         #ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="COLOR: green"#ed_cl#Each competitor will be #ed_op#B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"#ed_cl#timed#ed_op#/B#ed_cl# while they are on the XC course.#ed_op#SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"#ed_cl#  #ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl#The time allowed will be clearly marked on the XC map along with the #ed_op#B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"#ed_cl#speed#ed_op#/B#ed_cl# that the course should be ridden. The aim is to arrive at the finish line within the time allowed. However, there is a penalty for riding the course too fast. For Preliminary and below divisions if you arrive at the finish line more than 30 seconds before the time allowed, you will be penalized by one point per second under the 30 seconds. If you arrive at the finish line over the time allowed you will be penalized by 0.4 penalty points per second over the time#ed_op#B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"#ed_cl##ed_op#I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal"#ed_cl#.#ed_op#?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/I#ed_cl##ed_op#/B#ed_cl##ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[horsemad!]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#For all divisions, there is an optimum time and a maximum time (the maximum being twice the optimum).  Once you exceed the maximum time, you are eliminated.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I didnt think they eliminated for time faults... #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Did you have any refusals or missed jumps? They can eliminate you for alot of reason other than that too. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[KimW]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I had one refusal at the third jump but she went over it the second approach and then everything else was clear (jump wise I mean!)  When I went to the secretary to enquire they said I had been eliminated for the time faults.  I would like to know where the 2 x optimum time rule = elimination is written.  As the one person wrote the rule in the book only states penalties if you go too fast?????#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[horsemad!]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#It's called a time #ed_op#U#ed_cl#LIMIT#ed_op#/U#ed_cl# for a reason.  Twice the optimum time is the #ed_op#U#ed_cl#LIMIT#ed_op#/U#ed_cl#.   You exceed it, and you're out.   This could be a realatively new development as I believe they only recently started mandatory timing for Entry (PT80).  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#You should have asked the TD if you were concerned or confused about the rule... I'm sure they'd have been more than happy to show you their rule book.  #ed_op#IMG src="http://www.forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Happy/12.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[KimW]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Well I confirmed the rule with the OHTA and they said it was referenced in the EC rule book but I still think if they are going to talk rules in the Omnibus they should make sure they state all of them.  For others who are confused it is:#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Optimum Time = desired time if you go the speed they recommend#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Maximum Allowable Time = twice the optimum time.  Exceeding this time means elimination.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Horsemad! - no need to be sarcastic.  Also talking to the TD would not have affected my getting eliminated so what does it matter if I wait until after the show to get clarification.  Seeing as I only do that one show a year it was up to me to decide when to do this! #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I have pretty much decided I won't be eventing anymore.  Three years in a row I have been eliminated at our one eventing show on the same horse but each year for different reasons -obviously my one horse anyway doesn't seem to like the x-country part in a show situation. When we shool there she is usually much better - we have jumped things that are two levels above where we show!  Also too many friggin rules that they keep changing.  The cost, the distances to drive etc. is just not worth it to me.   At least with hunter/jumper or dressage shows you can have a number of chances, in the same ring, at ribbons/price money in one show and there are quite a few shows within an hours drive from me.  I still will be schooling x-country for fun when I can because I think variety is good for green horses and generally it gives confidence to them as well.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Anyway I'm going to retire from eventing and stick with volunteering.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[horsemad!]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm sorry!  I wasn't trying to be sarcastic.  You seemed a little bent about it, so rather than stew and vent, I'd have gone to the TD there and then for clarification.  It wouldn't have changed anything - ie: that you got the big E - but it would have put your mind to rest knowing that you weren't eliminated unfairly.   I guess on the positive side, after the disagreement with your mare, you did manage to get her around successfully.  That's a plus!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#It does seem that the rules change quite often and can be hard - even for those of us who are officials - to keep up with the changes.   I guess it's up to you and/or your coach to try and stay on top of them, as difficult as that may seem.   Sorry to hear you're giving the sport a pass.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Georgian C]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So, also just starting this year, I too am a bit mistified. So given a hypothetical situation of: #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#OPTIMAL time of 4 min #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#MAX being 8 min#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#But there is a 30 second grace period?? So if we came across the line with a time of 4:03min, not being over or under the 30second rule, would there be time faults?? If so, then what is the 30 seconds for???#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thanks! #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[beccyroo]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I may be wrong, but when competing cross country, I have always been told that there aren't any penaltys if you are 30 seconds over... and possibly under, I'm a little unsure on that one.. But I know that I have always heard that is you are 30 seconds, at the most, over the time it doesn't matter.... Maybe not though.... I'm also a little unclear now... hm...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[horsemad!]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoBodyText style="MARGIN: 0in -6pt 0pt 0in; LINE-HEIGHT: normal"#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt"#ed_cl#I think - and I could be wrong, - that you can be 30 seconds over the #ed_op#U#ed_cl#OPTIMUM TIME#ed_op#/U#ed_cl# and have no penalty points, but you can’t go over the #ed_op#U#ed_cl#TIME LIMIT#ed_op#/U#ed_cl#.#ed_op#SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"#ed_cl#   #ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"#ed_cl# #ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl#Methinks someone needs to pull out their trusty rule book! #ed_op#/SPAN#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"#ed_cl# #ed_op#?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /#ed_cl##ed_op#o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/o:p#ed_cl##ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#