Thoughts on breeding - interested in peoples varying opinion

[RioG]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm just throwing this out there for the sake of (hopefully) a good discussion.  I have a 13 y.o. QH mare with navicular and am considering breeding her.  Keep in mind that I am only considering it at this point and will do thorough research on the navicular aspect before making a decision.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm not interested in another QH right now.  I would really like to pursue dressage and so have thought of breeding her to something more suited to that discipline.  I have one offer of a Friesan stud, and another lead on a warmblood.  Again, I don't know anything about either of these horses just yet, but they are just examples of the direction I'm thinking of going with this.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#What are your thoughts on crosses?  It has been drilled into my head that an unregistered horse is a no-good horse.  Grade=junk.  The baby would be for me, not for resale, and I think it is true that any horse can be passported, whether it is breed-registered or not.  Is this true?  And is a passport sufficient to be showing entry to Trillium level dressage? (Again, far down the road).#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Also, what are your thoughts on breeding in general?  I would love to breed this mare because I like her. But my end goal is to have a suitable riding horse that will take me to the show ring for my own experience and education.  Would I be further ahead to find something affordable to purchase?  Or is the breeding experience worth the uncertainty?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Again, just for discussion here.  My first step in trying to decide what to do.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[zooka]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#staying away from the navicular aspect...  I have bred my mare twice I now have an amazing 4 year old and a baby due next spring.  It is an amazing experience to bredyour own baby and raise it from day one.  This is as long as you have time to put towars it.  There are many crosses in the dressage curcuit, you just do not tend to find them at the higher levels.  If this is a horse just for you I say go for it it is an awesome experience!!!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[graciespook]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm not so much interested in the breed of horse, but how the horse will complement your mare. Look at your mare. If you're planning on breeding for dressage, look for something uphill, not overly long, who has proven through himself or his offspring that they make good dressage prospects. A warmblood or something similar (even a nice TB) would probably complement the quarter horse aspect. I had an appendix who was fantastic. She had the head and attitude of the QH but the athleticism of a TB. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#As far as the navicular goes, if she's not in pain and can be kept comfortable with corrective shoeing, why not? If you're breeding for a Trillium dressage prospect I don't see why it isn't possible. There are many trains of thought on the heredity of Navicular and the cause. If you have a nice mare that would add some nice qualities to her offspring, I would say go for it. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[*rickie*]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#My only thought on breeding your own mare (not just yours, just everyone breeding in general) is, Do YOU have the time and the money to put forth 3 years of not riding a horse??#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#I know myself, I wouldn't be able to deal with that. I just can't see how I could spend all that money to board (Rio, I know you're boarding) a horse that I couldn't ride for 3 years. For that reason, and some others, I would be more up for buying another horse. In the long run it is WAY cheaper, and also for me, more *bang for my buck*. Also if anything should happen to the mare, or the foal (be in unborn, or just born) I wouldn't be able to deal with the heart ache. For me, I've heard to many horror stories of loosing the mare, (many times the mare and foal) and just couldn't do it!#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl##ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#FONT face=Tahoma color=#c080ff size=4#ed_cl#Best of luck on your decision. Just remember that if you were to buy a 3y/o and keep it for life, you'll still have that strong bond! (much like you and Rio have right now!)#ed_op#/FONT#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[RioG]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Thanks for the replies.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#She has some very nice qualities.  She's absolutely bomb-proof for one, but still has a ton of go and personality.  She has a beautiful long neck and nice movement (though that is diminished with the navicular).  She does have long-ish back and somewhat straight front end conformation that I would be looking to improve upon.  She also has a very good mind and is quick to pick up/remember her training.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I don't imagine I would ever make it past Trillium.  I'm not getting any younger!  I'm just not ready to give up on this mare yet, and breeding her would be one way to keep her with me and an active part of my "horse life".#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Lix]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#First off, was the navicular caused by faulty conformation?  If so, you have to keep in mind that even though navicular may not be tranmitted genetically (or can it?), if the foal were to have similar confirmation to Mommy - he/she will also be predisposed to it - which I'm sure is something you don't want.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I think you have one super thing going for you Rio is that you say your horse is sane and bomproof.  You hear that all the time, when you buy a horse look for 'temperament, temperament, temperament' and I've heard the same for breeding.  Alot of people out there have horses with high strung personalities and can't train them properly so they give them a career as a broodmare which is what I think is wrong, wrong, wrong.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#In your case, you are being very responsible about the decision, and you already have the main thing going for you - a dam with a super disposition.  If you do your research, and find that the likelyhood of the foal having navicular is no greater than any other horse, I say go for it!  (after of course discussing this all with your vet as well)  Of course, there are other factors:  foals require time, time and more time, will probably require professional training to break in, and not to mention the $$$ associated with all this and the mare in foal)  But if this is something you are aware of and ready for, I think the reward can be great.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#As for what to breed her with - I would definitely try something with more 'bone' than a QH (going back to the navicular issue).  Doesn't have to be tall - but with good bone and since you are looking for a dressage horse, a warmblood may be a good option.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I don't believe in an unregistered horse being a no good horse or junk.  That's completely ridiculous (I know you didn't say this but whoever did).  While I respect and understand registries and organized breeds, it's no reason to snub crosses - which so many of us own.  When I was out horse shopping - I was looking for a cross and didn't consider any purebreds!  Also, many people cross QH with TBs to create an "appendix" which I think is a great breed. Same goes for the Appy/TB.  I know they can be 'registered' but are not a breed as such and there is no difference between a registered appendix and a unregistered draft cross in terms of 'pureness'.  Sorry for the rambling but I don't think there is anything wrong with you crossing your horse so long as it's appropriate (i.e. not with a 18.2hh Percheron if your mare is 14.2).  Look for something that will make up for what you mare doesn't have conformation or athletic wise.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I would hardly call this backyard breeding if done responsibly, which seems to be exactly what you are doing. People are sometimes too quick at blurting out those words.   If you are ready for this, and your vet supports this, you could end up with a very nice horse. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[RioG]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Hey rickie,#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Very true, and those are definitely things I'm taking into consideration.  To be honest, however, I don't know if the purchase price of a suitable three year old will ever be within my means.  In a roundabout way, breeding is one way of getting what you want without the initial outlay of cash.  I know breeding is expensive, but the money is more of a trickle than a huge splash.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm not going to stress over the decision, but the thought is definitely giving me something to think about.  The one thing that is a given is that Rio is stuck with me, so no matter what I'll have to pay for two horses.  And to be honest, it isn't totally about the riding for me.  Horses are my hobby, but it's not just the riding, it's all aspects, from shovelling the sh*t to picking out their feet.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#And then theirs SO's to contend with... #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#edited to thank Lix for her reply.  You've also made some very good points.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Patricia]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I would only justify the breeding and its related cost IF you had your own farm.  Breeding and boarding your horses just don't go hand in hand.  Once weaned at 4 months it is board X 2= a huge mortgage payment, a family holiday....you get the picture.  It IS cheaper to go out and find a horse ready to started or green.  You may find that after paying a stud fee for a 'nice' Warmblood stallion you mare doesn't catch.  You end up waiting to the next year.  I have some friends that had to sell their breeding because the mare was unbreedable.  You must be prepared for heartache too...things don't always go as planned.  In the equation...the mare is almost more important than the stud.  Conformation, temperament, and her issue navicular...I don't think I would chance it.  Sometimes carrying the extra weight is very hard for them.  JMHO.  #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[goldendryad]

I know lots of QH breeders out here in SK and ALL of them breed mares
with navicular or some lameness. I know one woman who's broodmare band
is mostly performance horses retired early due to lameness.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
The babies they breed and raise go on to performance. Mostly western
stuff but some are appendix and go for hunter/jumper and dressage.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
That being said, I think you need to take a long, really hard look at
the stallion you choose, if you do decide to breed. Find one with
outstanding front end conformation who tends to pass that on to his
babies. That gives you some hope of correcting your mares flaws.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
I would avoid anything too heavy. The Freisien even. Since there's a
chance the baby could get his heavy body and her little feet, which
wouldn't be able to cope.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
Breed doesn't matter so much. Hell you could even look at Arabians
(which would refine your halter type mare, because obviously her feet
aren't standing up too well). They have very good movement and are very
capable of dressage. They are also showy, and could be papered as
Quarab or Arab part bred. So if you did need to sell, well the baby
wouldn't be a total grade.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
Or a nice TB for an appendix baby.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
But there is NOTHING wrong with a grade horse. Nothing. My BO has a
Dutch Warmblood/QH mare. She took after the warmblood very much, you
can't tell she's got any QH in her hardly. She has nice movement and
could easily do lower level dressage, that's what they are working on
now.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
There are other horses at my barn that are total grades, total
mongrels, PMU cropouts. All we can do is guess. They are both likely
have some QH in them. One we think has some Morgan and maybe a touch
Arabian somewhere. The other we think might be an appendix/draft cross.
They are both suitable to do lower level dressage and nice horses.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
This is your decision, I'm sure you will weigh it all out. But breeding
your own baby, I've heard and seen, can be very rewarding. I imagine
you could find a good place to keep her through this as well. A pasture
board of some sort or what have you.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
I'm sorry about your mare, but this is just another route you could consider with her.#ed_op#br#ed_cl#

[RioG]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Patricia, I hear you on the board issue, however no matter what route I take to my next horse, I will be boarding two.  There's simply no way around it without getting rid of Rio, and that's not an option.  However, I am VERY lucky in that the place I board is extremely reasonably priced, and my SO gets my feed at cost from work.  There's also the option of partboarding Rio out to a light rider.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Again, just weighing pros and cons here.  Not sure what the final decision will be.  Either way I want and need another horse.  Hopefully finances will allow.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[xena_n_joss]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I would personally go for a nice tb... something with conformation to correct your horses faults. TB/QH are usually generally very exceptional looking horses if you get the right mix... #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Leena]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Well, I am not a professional breeder...just a sunday one if we can say this. I have 2 mares, very different in term of breed, conformation, etc.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The first criteria for a mare is temperament, the second is conformation and gaits. I have one mare, canadian breed...I tell you nobody would buy her based on conformation and general aspect. But this mare is a highly talented broadmare, producing better than her; almost a miracle. She gave me 2 gorgeous foals; great shape, great gaits and beautifull temperament.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#She is a great mom, has plenty of milk, never sick,...the dream.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So I always look for a stallion who has what she does not have; more refine, great gates and power, short back, and temperament. Of course I look at data and performance. It is not really easy to find the right stallion, especially if you have a navicular issue.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#My other mare give what she is, no more.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Hope this help,#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Leena#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#This is my experience so far, #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[jax]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Apart from all of the comments that others have made about matching the stallion to the mare, I would make sure that the mare could handle a pregnancy.  How does she get up now after lying down?  Is she severely sore or just "off"?  Remember all of the extra weight that a pregnancy would put on her legs, and also the stress on the abdominal wall of her trying to keep the weight off her feet.  Personally I would fully investigate the mare (which I'm sure you have) to make sure that she isn't quickly progressing.  Remember, by the time you breed her it will be (I'm assuming) next spring, and then it will be spring 2007 before you have the baby.  The mare will then need to still be able to move to keep up with a growing foal.  Make sure she'll still be able to do it.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[RioG]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Leena, that is something I would worry about were I to pursue the breeding angle.  Someone once told me that if you don't want a carbon copy of your mare, don't breed her.  And of course that's what I don't want, is another Rio.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Jax, the vet also reminded me of that problem, that with pregnancy she might become more sore.  Right now she's not severely sore, nowhere near it.  With her feet trimmed she's just "off".  In fact somedays she's "sound".  But the vet did suggest only light riding, because if I were to work her too hard it could progress the problem more rapidly than I want.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'm still up in the air.  Somedays I think yes, somedays no... the last thing I want is to be one of those irresponsible people who breed just for the heck of it.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Leena]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#RioG, while I consider myself lucky so far, it is also true that to some extend breeding can be a surprise box.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So it is wise to think about it and not breeding for the heck of it. I bred Leena because she has a super conformation, super character and she is talented; I am more than please to have a carbon copy beside her.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I breed Surprise, my Canadian mare simply because we bought her in foal and discover how talented broadmare she is. You should see the yearling we have right now...He is stunning, and so handsome.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#But I have seen a lot of surprise box, ugly foals, crooked legs, long ears....You never know. To an extend, If I did not have the place at home to raise the foals and keep the broadmares, I would never get in breeding. Buying a 2 yo is a less risky business, even if prices are high sometimes.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Leena#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Kaleena]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Hey Rio,#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Not sure if you read my post in your other thread, but I have a navicular mare too. I went through all the same thought patterns as you with regards to breeding. I too knew that I needed and wanted another horse so regardless of how I got the other one I would be paying for 2 horses eventually. With my mare we knew her navicular was more of an arthiritis that was not genetic as it only affected one front foot when traditionally it affects both. To this day she x-rays clean on her left but not so on her right. The vet assumes there was some trama early on in her life. So with that info and the fact that she did have great feet otherwise and I would have loved a carbon copy I did decided to breed her. Well, there was actually another reason....I had the oportunity to breed her to one of Beth Underhills stallions free of charge so I went for it. My mare was 13 just coming up to 14 when she was bred live cover. She caught the first time no problems at all. She carried the foal for 7 full months and then lost it. It was heartbreaking. The vet doesn't know what happen, he looked normal (it was a dark coloured colt) and we had done all the anti-abortion shots...mother nature must have had a reason I guess. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So the following summer when my mares colt would have been a year old I went out and bought myself a nice yearling filly who is everything that I could have hoped for and I love her to death. I guess the point of my story is that if you go with breeding your mare, be prepared for possible heartache...but if it works you'll have a lovely foal to love, or you can do what I did and buy yourself a yearling and still be able to get those bonding years in before riding them. I went with a yearling myself because I could afford a way better quality yearling than a 3-4year old of the same quality and I wanted to do a lot of the ground work and backing myself as if I had had her from a foal.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Good luck with whatever you decide.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Keetee]

I know it is very tempting, but unless your mare is an excellent
candidate (temperament, conformation, etc.), you are likely better off
to buy another horse.  Even breeding two exceptional horses can
result in a dud.  Some breeders look at the characteristics back
several generations before considering a horse for breeding because
traits from generations ago that don't appear in the current horse can
show up in the baby.  Buying a horse allows you to choose exactly
(or as close as any of us can get) what you want.  Of course you
want your mare to still lead a useful life but if that is the main
reason for breeding her, consider that breeding is also a risk for
her.  Your mare can continue to lead a useful life as your friend
and possibly as an excellent example for your next prospect. 
Every article you read says to start hacking/trailering/showing/etc. a
new/younger horse with an experienced, quiet horse - you actually have
one of those!#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
#ed_op#br#ed_cl#
As for grade horses, when you are out showing, no one can tell what you
are riding.  Many people have thought that my 7/8 TB was a
warmblood and that my purebred Trakehner (no crosses anywhere in her
pedigree - just Trakehner) is a saddlebred!  And don't limit your
goals to trillium, just keep going and who knows where you'll end up!#ed_op#br#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Something no-one else has addressed is "old maiden syndrome" . Kaleena, this may be a possibility as to why your mare aborted at 7 months. It's the old "use it or lose it" idea, if a mare is not bred, her uterus atrophies with age which can result in abortion at any stage, or if they do carry the pregnancy to term, quite often the foal is unusually small, or underweight. The uterus is just not in good enough cellular shape to grow a proper foal. Has Rio ever been bred? Personally, I'm a breeder much like Leena, I breed one or two a year. I would not take the chance on a 13 yo maiden, especially if you don't have another mare you could substitute should Rio not be terribly fertile. You can, however, have a uterine biopsy done, which will tell you if her uterus is still in good enough shape to consider breeding. If you decide to proceed with breeding I would definitely do that before booking a stud.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#In regards to that I would absolutely not breed a QH to a Friesian. You want to find a stallion that will compliment your mare's weaknesses, but is of the same phenotype. This is why some draft crosses are lovely, but others end up being a mishmash of TB and draft parts. The parents are too different.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I have a TB/QH X mare who is of lovely dressage type, and I generally like that cross. As far as crossing with a warmblood goes I lean to Trakehners when crossing "off" breeds as they carry more Arab and TB blood, and historically when people are trying to improve a breed they add Arab or TB. However, I wouldn't not look at others, but would avoid heavier warmbloods, go for something with a strong TB line.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Ruth]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I had some more thoughts on this subject, but had to leave before I could get them down.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#When you break down the costs of breeding and raising a foal to the age of 3, you could probably buy a decent 3 yo in less time. The trick is putting the equivalent money away over that time period! But if you look at it, between a stud fee for a good stallion and getting the mare in foal you are looking at let's say $1200-$1500 for the stud fee and almost $500 for ultrasounds and breeding. And that's IF your mare catches first try. If not you can look at spending another $500 or so for the second try if you go the AI route. Even if you find a suitable stallion close to you for live cover you will have to pay for trailering and mare care, plus you will still need to ultrasound to check if she's in foal. So let's say that's already $2,000 you have spent and the foal is not on the ground yet. Once it arrives your OK on board for the first 6 months, but after that, for the sake of argument let's say you can keep the foal for $200/ month board, which over the next 2 1/2 years adds up to $6,000 plus shots, feet, etc., probably would make for another $1,000 and you still haven't gotten it started yet! So that's around $9,000 from the time of breeding to the time you send the youngster to the trainer. I have a friend who has a very nice 3 yo who could do National level dressage and she is selling her for quite a bit less than that! If your aim is Trillium dressage, well, I used to show a STB mare up to Medium 1 Trillium and she cost $600. She was very competitive as a Trillium horse. Plus, the foal may not turn out to be what you want, at least with buying a 3 yo you have a better idea as to the suitability of the horse. I'm actually not trying to talk you out of the idea, but I just wanted to point out the cold hard facts so to speak. There are rewards with raising your own baby as well!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Oh, the other thing was that you should be able to register the foal, and while I am of the opinion that you don't ride papers, I personally make a point of making sure all my foals have some sort of registration. It does depend on what happens with the possible amalgamation of CSH and CWHBA, but as it stands now, you could either:#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#For CSH, send your mare for approval, if she passes then if you breed to a CSH approved stallion your foal can be registered CSH. BTW, we have had an ASB and a STB approved, and I am planning on having my TB/QH mare inspected next year.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#For CWBHA you can have your mare's information recorded in the Auxiliary Book. Then if you breed to either a CWBHA approved stallion or a stallion who is registered with any of the warmblood registries that are approved you can get CWBHA papers on the foal.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#For the ATA as long as you breed to an ATA approved stallion you can get part-bred papers on the foal.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#With CSH papers that will allow you to show your youngster on the line at CSH shows, with the CWBHA papers you can show in the Open division when it is offered at the CSH shows, and that can be something fun to work on with a youngster. Plus it gets them out to shows and exposed to that environment, then when you start to show under saddle your baby is already accustomed to a show situation.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Good luck with your decision!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#

[Kaleena]

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Something no-one else has addressed is "old maiden syndrome" . Kaleena, this may be a possibility as to why your mare aborted at 7 months. 

#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Possible...but we did have a uterine biopsy done by a vet who specialized in breeding before hand and he said everything was fine. I could have sent the fetus to guelph to find out exactly what went wrong but at the time that was a lot of money I couldn't afford, it might not have told me anything anyway, and I wasn't planning on trying to breed her again. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#