foal with club feet

Discussion on anything equine health-related.

Moderator: EC

foal with club feet

Postby Elizabeth » Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:25 pm

My husband met a friend yesterday who has a 5 month old weanling with club feet. I don't know that much about babies and how to approach this problem. I am figuring that he needs to find a really good farrier - if anyone knows of one with experience with this who travels North East of Toronto please PM me.

I am interested in thoughts around diet etc. if anyone has any input. The filly has been on pasture, no grain, mostly because she wasn't that interested in it before she was weaned. The owner is having the vet run blood tests to find out if anything else is going on. He says that she has good conformation apart from her feet. I would love to hear from anyone who can give me some ideas to pass on to the owner. Thanks :)
User avatar
Elizabeth
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
Posts: 1458
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:55 pm
Location: Canada

Postby Leena » Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:30 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Elisabeth, there is several type of club foot. A light type one is nothing and a good farrier should trim it and maintain a proper care of the foot without any problem.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I bought my mare and at 18 months she was a bit clubby. She is now 5 yo and is doing great. Very important to trim regularely.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#As for diet, I feed my colts with a ration balancer and hay. Up to a year, foals needs at least 16% protein , after, as their growth period is much over, you may reduce protein. The best person to help is your vet, otherwise a good nutrionist.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#If that foal is on pasture right now, she might get what she needs, but as the time goes, pasture will decline and a good balance diet would be require.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Hope this help,#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Leena#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
User avatar
Leena
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
Posts: 1663
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 12:22 pm
Location: Canada

Postby jax » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:58 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Define North East Toronto.  My farrier is coming out tonight and I can see if he does any barns in your area.  He is a marvel with clubby youngsters.  He also has a few apprentices that would be good as well.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl# #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Is it a true club, or more of an "upright" foot like a lot of WB babies get?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
<b>Practice makes progress</b>
User avatar
jax
Uber Poster
Uber Poster
 
Posts: 3864
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:55 pm
Location: You've-never-heard-of-it, Ontario

Postby Elizabeth » Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:09 am

Thanks for your replies. I haven't seen the weanling, she belongs to a friend of my husband's and I was asked about her on Saturday.

I believe she is in Uxbridge or close by. I will pass on any ideas or suggestions to the owner. He wasn't able to describe it that well to me and I gather that his farrier wasn't very helpful about corrective trimming.

I am going out of town for 10 days on Thursday so I don't have time to pop up and see her feet or take pictures for you. If possible I will try and do so when I get back.
User avatar
Elizabeth
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
Posts: 1458
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:55 pm
Location: Canada

Postby jax » Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:21 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Okay, I know for sure that one of my guy's apprentices goes to the Uxbridge area (he does my friend's horses in the area).&nbsp; I will talk to my guy tonight about it and see if he has any info, and I'll keep an eye out for pics.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Oh, and I should qualify - when I say apprentice I mean he trained under my farrier, and still consults with him, but has been a farrier in his own rite for a while.&nbsp; So, it's not someone who's just starting out #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys/Happy/2.gif"#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
<b>Practice makes progress</b>
User avatar
jax
Uber Poster
Uber Poster
 
Posts: 3864
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:55 pm
Location: You've-never-heard-of-it, Ontario

Postby graciespook » Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:22 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I had a youngster with a fairly bad club foot. We started having him done immediately by the farrier and ended up ok. The key is to start fixing it right away and have a farrier experienced dealing with club feet. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
Image
User avatar
graciespook
Uber Poster
Uber Poster
 
Posts: 3621
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:36 pm
Location: It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

Postby Elizabeth » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:23 pm

Thanks everyone. Jax, I would really love to have the contact information for the apprentice so that I can pass it on to my husband's friend. I know that he will be really grateful. :)
User avatar
Elizabeth
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
Posts: 1458
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:55 pm
Location: Canada

Postby jax » Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:15 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Actually, I spoke to my farrier last night, and he is more than willing to head out to Uxbridge.&nbsp; I will send you a PM with his info.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
<b>Practice makes progress</b>
User avatar
jax
Uber Poster
Uber Poster
 
Posts: 3864
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:55 pm
Location: You've-never-heard-of-it, Ontario

Postby Elizabeth » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:33 pm

Thanks Jax, you have a reply :)
User avatar
Elizabeth
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
Posts: 1458
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:55 pm
Location: Canada

Postby Arcadia » Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:18 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#You cannot "fix" a club foot, you can maintain it, but you cannot alter it's shape or try to change what it is.&nbsp; If you do it will only become worse.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I know, I have one and he was not too bad until people tried to make it look normal, now he is buggered, probably forever.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#There are many horses showing that are clubby, and you have to look real close to see that they are.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
User avatar
Arcadia
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
Posts: 1770
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 12:42 pm
Location: Canada

Postby Ruth » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:27 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Treatment at 5 months can vary from stall rest and no grain combined with lowering the heels gradually (usually bi-weekly visits from the farrier to do this)and X-rays to keep track of the progress, to just the trimming depending on the severity. Also like someone else mentioned there are upright pasterns and then there are clinically diagnosed club feet. Your husband's friend should work with both vet and blacksmith to get the best results. I have heard various causes put forth such as rapid growth or mineral-mining by the mare&nbsp;and there is also a theory I have heard that they are actually born that way but it doesn't become obvious sometimes until they are around 3 months when the hoof grows down enough that you can&nbsp;see the different angle.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
Ruth
Uber Poster
Uber Poster
 
Posts: 6543
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:55 pm

Postby Elizabeth » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:53 pm

Thanks for all the great information. I'll pass it along. I am heading out of town for 10 days so I won't be getting any messages for a while. I'll give the owner a call again when I get home.
User avatar
Elizabeth
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
Posts: 1458
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:55 pm
Location: Canada

Postby Chisholm » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:26 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Well it will be interesting to hear what a farrier says.&nbsp; I have known a few club foots.&nbsp; Make sure it is a club and not just contracted tendons.&nbsp; My guy must have had a contracted tendon when he was young.&nbsp; After 3 years of my farrier working on him the foot is almost the same size as the other now.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
Chisholm
Uber Poster
Uber Poster
 
Posts: 4760
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:55 pm
Location: Canada

Postby Perilous » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:58 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Start working on them properly the younger the better. The vet and farrier should work closely together. I wouldn't waste anytime get a farrier out there.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
User avatar
Perilous
Newbies
Newbies
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:24 pm
Location: ky/ar

Postby TrueColours » Thu Oct 06, 2005 9:55 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Unless it is a VERY minor club foot, I cannot see how a farrier can 100% "correct" it#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Surgical corrections are done and they are literally 100% successful. Ilderton does them as do Guelph, and they are a HUGE part of their business.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#yes - people believe that it is a heritable fault so if you visually correct it, it can and will still pass on genetically. Are you duping future generations and buyers&nbsp;by doing so? I would say a resounding "yes", the same way that a "stripped" horse is also giving buyers the illusion that the horse they are buying has straight legs as well ...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I think it all depends on your future intended use for the crooked legged or club footed foal. I know many many babies that had both procedures done that are now in the genetic pool, breeding on, and the new owners are scratching their heads wondering where this crookedy legged foal came from out of 2 *perfect* legged parents ... #ed_op#IMG src="/richedit/smileys/confused.gif"#ed_cl#&nbsp;...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#BR#ed_cl#What you see isnt always what you get and a lot of people buying straight legged youngsters have NO idea what surgical corrections were done to them in months or years gone by to make them LOOK perfect even though genetically, they were not meant to be that way ...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Food for thought, isnt it???#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
True Colours Farm

Breeders of unique coloured Thoroughbreds and Sport Horses - standing Guaranteed Gold, 16.1hh cremello TB stallion

http://www.TrueColoursFarm.com
User avatar
TrueColours
Senior Member
Senior Member
 
Posts: 512
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:48 pm
Location: Wilsonville, Ontario. Canada

Postby tbbrat » Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:56 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Just curious - what's a "stripped" horse?&nbsp; Never heard that term.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#We were looking at some ads for horses and one said that it had had surgery for contracted tendons - very honest!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons - for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
User avatar
tbbrat
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
Posts: 1789
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 5:39 pm
Location: Canada

Postby Ruth » Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:43 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#TrueColors - there is no reason to believe that club feet are necessarily genetic, although you can't rule it out as a possibility, it does not seem to be a probability.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The school of thought is that it is more likely due to mineral imbalances and/or rapid growth. I have one slightly club-footed foal - I bred his dam, neither she nor her mother were club-footed. The sire was champion of his stallion test in Germany,&nbsp;and&nbsp;I doubt he was either! #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#We have another mare who had a fairly crooked foal,&nbsp;she did straighten with farrier attention, and also had contracted tendons at birth and then went a little upright and clubby at 3 months - none of these mares other foals have had any of these problems, and the stallion does not have a reputation for producing crooked foals either. Now with this particular mare the genetic component could be that she has very big foals, in fact I won't breed her to stallions that are known to throw size. But I wouldn't stop breeding her because one foal out of three developed a slight club.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I would consider surgery if either of these were worse, but the vet (and this is the vet who would do the surgery) feels that corrective trimming and a reduction of calories is the best way to start. He is very pleased with how the older one has come around.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#When I look at my 9 yo CSH gelding his pasterns don't have the exact same angle. It's never troubled him any.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#While I wouldn't advertise either of my foals as having clubs, I would certainly mention to any prospective buyers that they have had corrective trimming for upright pasterns and a broken pastern/hoof angle.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
Ruth
Uber Poster
Uber Poster
 
Posts: 6543
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:55 pm

Postby TrueColours » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:25 am

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Oh Ruth - I dont know ... The ones that I personally shipped to Ilderton for their owners for surgery&nbsp;were 2 month old sucklings that were badly clubbed and yes - they had an astute and excellent blacksmith and he didnt even want to touch them and the surgical correction was the only option as far as he and their vet was concerned.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#After surgery - perfect!#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#And oh yes ... the dam? EVERY SINGLE FOAL WAS CLUB FOOTED. 100% of them and wow - what a surprise - SHE had the surgery done as well as a youngster. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Why did they keep breeding her?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Because she was a black Arabian mare, coming from a LONG line of black Arabians (MUCH sought after) so a *little* surgically correctable problem like a club foot - pshaw - easy to fix with the surgery and a few bucks thrown at it and who cares if it keeps on reproducing ad&nbsp;nauseum through the generations???#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Yes - this was an exception, but it does seem to have some heritable basis to passing on through the generations and perhaps some are mild enough that yes - the blacksmith CAN correct them through judicious trimming over a period of time. Or - the Dallmer&nbsp; (club foot) glue-on shoes can be used that have&nbsp;a screw-on heel wedge, which can be progressively rasped down after raising the heels initially but it is a long and progressive process and is not a 100% guarantee of long term success. #ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Stripping?&nbsp;&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#If your foal is born with crookedy legs that look like&nbsp;pretzels, they can be surgically corrected to look 100% straight through periostal stripping&nbsp;.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Yes - it means that the foal will fetch a lot of money at the yearling sales because of its lovely straight legs, but since it was born with pretzel legs, one would assume that genetically, the crookedness will carry through to future generations, and the new owner will be left scratching&nbsp; his/her head when the perfectly straight legged mare&nbsp; #ed_op#IMG src="/richedit/smileys/cross-eyed.gif"#ed_cl#&nbsp;bred to the perfect straight legged stallion #ed_op#IMG src="http://forums.equestrianconnection.com/richedit/smileys//smiley13.gif"#ed_cl#&nbsp;consistently produce these crookedy legged foals ...&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#A lot of times the new owners dont have a CLUE if they werent the original breeders and its not necessarily something a vet would check for on a pre purchase.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Is it out and out fraud to NOT divulge these surgical corrections when you are selling your surgically altered *perfect* looking foal???#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
True Colours Farm

Breeders of unique coloured Thoroughbreds and Sport Horses - standing Guaranteed Gold, 16.1hh cremello TB stallion

http://www.TrueColoursFarm.com
User avatar
TrueColours
Senior Member
Senior Member
 
Posts: 512
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2005 7:48 pm
Location: Wilsonville, Ontario. Canada

Postby 2dapoint » Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:42 pm

#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#In theory, I have to agree with True Colours...#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I'll never forget a *story* that I heard once (from a human mother) about having had a horrid nose and the first thing she did with some "mad money" was a nose job.&nbsp; Years pass, she gets married and they start a family.&nbsp; She spent an entire 9 MONTHS terrified that her baby would have HER (original) nose and not inherit from it's father's side.&nbsp; Lucky them, she never had to confess (she had visions that her husband would accuse her of adultery etc. if the babe should have been born with a larger nose)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Anyways.&nbsp; MY understanding of "club feet" (and I could be VERY wrong here) is that there is a difference between "clubbish" feet (where the tendons have begun to draw the heel up) - often occurring from long legged babies trying to eat grass and the same foot always going back, while the opposite same goes foreward... to a true club (interior bone rotation)&nbsp;- diagnosable only through x-rays.&nbsp; AND if it isn't fixed EARLY (like 3 months?) - then you're messing too much with bones and joints that are setting already.&nbsp; But every now and again, you get a farrier who tries *corrective* shoeing or trimming on a 12 year old horse... and guess who's in pain and lame all the time??#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Sooner is better, preferrably with both a Vet AND the farrier to consult (not just with the owner, but with each other)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
Due to interpretational difficulties inherent in written communications, I respectfully suggest you refer to your coach for the answer; Imitation is still the sincerest form of flattery. Thank you, it's quite a lovely feeling to be so appreciated.
User avatar
2dapoint
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
 
Posts: 2136
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:55 pm
Location: Canada

Postby Ruth » Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:38 pm

Shelley wrote:#ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Anyways.&nbsp; MY understanding of "club feet" (and I could be VERY wrong here) is that there is a difference between "clubbish" feet (where the tendons have begun to draw the heel up) - often occurring from long legged babies trying to eat grass and the same foot always going back, while the opposite same goes foreward... to a true club (interior bone rotation)&nbsp;- diagnosable only through x-rays.&nbsp; AND if it isn't fixed EARLY (like 3 months?) - then you're messing too much with bones and joints that are setting already.&nbsp; But every now and again, you get a farrier who tries *corrective* shoeing or trimming on a 12 year old horse... and guess who's in pain and lame all the time??#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Sooner is better, preferrably with both a Vet AND the farrier to consult (not just with the owner, but with each other)#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#
#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#That is also my understanding Shelley. We have had one that was a true club, radiographically diagnosed and monitored, she did respond to corrective trimming, stall rest and weaning. Surgery would have been done if it had been needed.#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#The vet has not recommended x-raying for the two I have this year (and this is a guy who likes you to spend your money!), they seem to be just&nbsp;"clubbish" and have responded very well to weaning and corrective trimming. I believe you can make a difference up to about 18 months, but the surgery is best done before 6 months, and yes, when they're older it is best left alone.#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#P#ed_cl#I wasn't saying it couldn't be genetic - just that it isn't #ed_op#STRONG#ed_cl#necessarily #ed_op#/STRONG#ed_cl#genetic. The mare whose foal had the true club had 2 foals after my friend bought her, the other never had any problems. He got a touch upright, but one trim corrected it. This mare had 6 foals before my friend bought her, and her previous owner certainly didn't mention anything about clubs - not that that means there weren't any, but my friend bought her as a companion "husband" horse at 17, not as a potential broodmare, so they wouldn't have had much reason to mention it one way or the other.#ed_op#/P#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#The clubbish ones I have this year:#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Mare #1 has had 3 foals, the other 2 straight legged and no clubbiness. This mare would not have had surgery that wasn't disclosed.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#Mare #2 is homebred, neither of her parents had clubs, and I can be pretty certain the sire of her foal didn't either.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#So I've got 2 clubbish foals from 2 different mares by different stallions in the same year&nbsp;whom I have no reason to believe have any genetic problem with club feet - and you don't think there's something wacky with feed/management?#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#&nbsp;#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl##ed_op#DIV#ed_cl#I don't think that anyone has all the answers on this, and I'm not saying genetics aren't a&nbsp;part of it, but TrueColors made a blanket statement that club-footedness is genetic. I am saying that isn't necessarily the case.#ed_op#/DIV#ed_cl#
Ruth
Uber Poster
Uber Poster
 
Posts: 6543
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:55 pm

Next

Return to Veterinary, Farrier & Equine Nutrition

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron