Elderly Cat

[*Giddy Up*]

So one of my kitties is getting on in his years- he'll be 14 in March, though he is still doing just fine. But, I worry about keeping him that way.

Has anyone ever put their cat on a joint supplement like glucosamine? If so, did you buy it from the vet or use a human form? Pills or liquid? Did your cat accept it?

I keeping wondering about putting Tiger on something like glucosamine, but there will be some issues because 1) he hates pills, you have to wrangle him and then shove the pill down his throat, so I'd need to find something that could go in his food and 2) he has food allergies (must stay special food) so I don't even know if he could take a supplement.

But anyway, I thought I'd atleast start here and see if anyone had personal success with such a thing.

[babytigger]

GU...I have my 19 1/2 yr old cat on a supplement. At first, I was crushing up the MSM/glucosamine pills from Shoppers...however, I think they weren't helping much. She could taste them in her food, and became extremely picky about eating. Since she has CRF (chronic renal failure), she must eat on a regular basis. I couldn't have her being picky about her food. She only gets wet food, as well. Wet food is better for cats in general as they have a low thirst drive, so feeding wet food also ensure she gets some water in her system, which is extremely important for her (it's magnified because of her kidneys, she MUST get water in her).

After talking to the vet I work with, whom I also had examine my cat (and did bloodwork on too, just to check her kidney levels, thyroid etc), I have her on a liquid glucoamine product called UbaVet Plus. It's tasteless and odorless (as far as I can tell). I jast squirt her dose into her food 2 x daily. I've had no issues with it. Because of her kidneys(and her heart murmur and arthritis) she needs to be on something fairly mild. It takes some time to get working in their system, but I have seen an improvement in her. She used to have a very hard time getting on the couch or the benches, her back end would just give out on her. Since she's been getting the UbaVet, it's improved a lot...she rarely falls backwards now when she's trying to jump up onto stuff.

Discuss it with your vet. Once cats start getting older, they can have a multitude of problems. You don't want to add a supplement if you don't need to, or if it may do more harm than good (like the pills I was using), and with Tiger having allergies, that is a possibility.

I get the UbaVet from work (vet's office), and I'm sure it is something any vet could order in/prescribe.

[*Giddy Up*]

Thanks BT!

[babytigger]

No problem GU.

And holy crap..I had a lot of typos in my post. Sorry about that!

[babytigger]

Oops, posted before I was done....

I wanted to say to definately discuss it with your vet before giving kitty any supplements/meds. I'm very cautious about what I give to Mog and here's why.....she has CRF, arthritis and a heart murmur. The usual meds for arthritis (NSAIDS) would be bad for her already failing kidneys. The treatment for kidney failure (once it gets bad enough) is to give daily IV fluids, however this would increase the work for her already stressed heart. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, but we keep pluggin away. That's why I went with a very mild supplement for her arthritis, and why she only eats wet food as it's best for her kidneys.

I would definately take Tiger in and have a senior blood/urine work up done.

[*rickie*]

Quick reply here:
Frist thing, defenitely discuss it with your vet. He/she may be able to advice as to a supplement if the food allergy is known. Remember that most supplements aren't acutally made from "beef" contents if they are beef flavoured, so that may work out in your favour.

One thing to know is that cats continue to jump up even as they age. Once your cat stop jumping up as often, or appear to have trouble when jumping that is a sign of joint pain -- is this something that you are noticing with your kitty?

Lastly just wanted to mention that Medi-Cal Royal Canin as come out with a new joint diet for cats! Hills is supposse to be coming out with their version this month of next I believe, so that might be something less stressful for your cat -- talk to your vet. I know a few people on the Medi-Cal/Royal Canin one, but they haven't been on long enough to know fur sure the effects, but I do know the canine joint foods (Hills J/D & Purina Vet Diet Joint Mobility) have really made some large improvements for some dogs, so the feline joint diet might be a great way to go

[*Giddy Up*]

Thanks for the replies. I definitely wouldn't put Tiger on something without consulting the vet first.

Rickie- No, I haven't noticed any decrease in his jumping. I don't think he currently has joint pain, I just want to prevent it from happening since he getting to the geriatric stage. He's slowed down a bit with his general daily movements, but even then, it's not that he's stopped doing things (because he'll still rip around the house when he feels like it), he just conserves his energy . Actually, he still jumps down just as he always has- I sometimes wonder why he doesn't take an easier way down (like jump from my desk to the chair then the floor).... but no, he just jumps.

[babytigger]

As much as all those vet foods seem like a good idea, they aren't. They are no better for you pet than any store bought food. They are uber expensive as well. And they can be tricky to feed to your animals, as for the most part, they taste awful (or so I'm told, I didn;t ask how people knew this though!)

[*rickie*]

BT -- we'll have to agree to disagree on each of those

[*Giddy Up*]

I don't plan on changing their food anyway, since Tiger is so sensitive. I've found something, so I'll stick with it. I had one of the other cats at the vet about 6months ago and we discussed their diet- Bobbie, the tubby one, is now on a strict eating schedule (She's gone from 18 to 16lbs... it's a start). But the vet wasn't concerned at all with what I was currently feeding them.

I was thinking more of something I could add to his. Pills would be difficult.... sometimes he needs an allergy pill if he's eaten something he shouldn't and is therefore throwing up everywhere, and my goodness, it's a two person cat-wrangling job to get half a tiny pill in him. So hopefully something liquid I could mix in.

[babytigger]

The UbaVet is a liquid supplement. So much easier! As for pills...you can buy those Pill Pocket thingys. It's like a soft treat you can mush the pill into. Most cats (and dogs) like them. The cat ones come in a couple of flavours.

Rickie - I will have to disgree with you. The vet foods are all grain based, same as most store bought foods. Cats are carnivores, and need high protein diets, but protein from the right source. Carnivores eat meat, not grains/plants. Cats need meat protein, not grain based proteins. Instead of spending a ridiculous amount of money on vet foods, owners would be better off investing their money into a much better quality wet cat food (Wellness, Eagle Pack and especially EVO or EVO 95%.). Or, if they want to try it, feeding their cats a raw diet. That (the raw diet) is truly the best one for them, provided you can balance it properly. I would love to get my girls onto EVO or EVO 95.....it's basically "raw diet in a can", but they are so darn picky, so the switch would have to be super slow.

[*rickie*]

BT -- dunno if you remember, but I manage a small animal vet clinic, so sadly no matter how much differently I'm told on here (or on any other board), I'll always have to agree to disagree. I've seen the improvements 1st hand, and will trust my boss's & vets & all research done by the major food companies before someone on a BB. I think if you were in the same boat you would to

[babytigger]

And that is fine Rickie. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think if I was in the same boat, I wouldn't trust, I would go do my own reserach.

Working for a vet, I've also garnered some information as well. I've also done a load of research into various cat foods and dietary requirements in my search to help out my cats (and more specifically my oldest cat with CRF). I'm not saying there is no medicinal benefit to the vet foods. Just saying that, for cats, they do not meet the normal dietary requirements for carnivorous felines. Domesticated cats or not, they are still carnivores and they require meat protein as the main part of their diet, not proteins from grain. A cats digestive system is not designed to break down grain products.

And, by way of vets...their ideas and treatments are not the be all & end all for our animals. My CRF cat was diagnosed about a year and a half ago with first stage kidney failure. There is no cure, only paliative care really. The vet who diagnosed her (I wasn't working for one at the time) immediately wanted her on daily sub-Q injections and NSAIDS for her arthritis. I wanted some time to think and look into it. What did I discover? The daily sub-Q injections would make is harder for her heart to function (she has a grade 3/4 heart murmur) and the NSAIDS would actually make her kidney function worse. Had I gone that route without educating myself, Mog may not be here today. What the vet wanted to do may have killed her. Simply changing her food to a good quality wet food, and giving her a daily dose of her glucosamine has made all the difference. Her last check (which she's due again soon) was about 6 mths ago, and her kidney function has not decreased at all from when she was first diagnosed.

Hell..vets will still push the reduced protein diet for CRF cats, when proteins aren't exactly the issue. It's the phosphorus and phosphorus binding that is the major concern. Cats require a high protein diet, and the proteins need to be from the right source.

[babytigger]

I knew I still had this link.

Very infomative. Written by a vet as well.

http://www.catinfo.org/

Rickie, you really should take the time to read it. As should anyone with a cat.

[lifeafterracing]

Personally, I would much rather give a liquid supplement in a good quality food than spend a fortune buying a premix food/supplement from the vet, which more than one cat I have had has refused to eat. By good quality food, I do not mean a grain based food. Cats are carnivores. I really think babytigger is on the right track with this, GiddyUp.

I was an AHT on the coast and the small animal vet I worked with, when I asked if I should buy my food from him, said "Don't waste your money. I don't carry a lot of food. I don't sell a lot of food. If a client demands it, I have it on hand, but I don't push it." That told me a lot. Petsmart and Global both carry quality food.

Did you get a promotion, rickie? I thought you were a receptionist at the clinic. If so, congrats.

[Sunny Side Up]

...They are no better for you pet than any store bought food.

They are far superior to grocery store brands; I'm sure you've read the crap they put in that stuff. Sawdust probably has more nutritive value.

But I agree with you on one point, a balanced raw (or whole) foods diet is the way to go, IF you can get your cats to eat it. I've had no success.

[babytigger]

...They are no better for you pet than any store bought food.

They are far superior to grocery store brands; I'm sure you've read the crap they put in that stuff. Sawdust probably has more nutritive value.

But I agree with you on one point, a balanced raw (or whole) foods diet is the way to go, IF you can get your cats to eat it. I've had no success.

Hey, nice to see you SSU!

If you mean the grocery store brands (like the no name dog/cat food) then yes, the vet food probably has a bit more nutritive value, but again, it's still grain based filler type crap for the most part, so in my book, they aren't really any better than a no name food.

Raw diet...I haven't tried. It's something I'm looking into, to see if my daily life can take the extra work. Plus, balancing the nutrition is a concern. There are plenty of canned wet food alternatives though such as EVO 95%, Wellness or Nature's Instinct (I think that's it....Eagle Pack perhaps). From what I've seen, and read, the EVO is the closet canned food to a raw diet. My old picky girl loved it for a week, then poo-poo'd it. *sigh*

[Sunny Side Up]

I don't get it. One of my cats just about drools when he smells McDonald's fries, but turns his nose up at steak, shrimp and chicken cut into bite-sized morsels. No accounting for taste. Or metabolism. All three are fed the same diet - the 11-yr-old is a perfect weight, the 5-yr-old is obese, and the 2-yr-old is flabby.

[*Giddy Up*]

My cats are funny like that too SSU.

Tiger, the one with the food allergies who isn't supposed to eat anything but cat food (not even cat treats), will eat ANYTHING. And he tries all the time too! Socks will not touch people food except for cheese- we occasionally offer the other two a lick of tuna if we're making something with it and she will not touch it or any other sort of meat. Only her cat food. Bobbie is kind of in the middle- she eats her tuna and would eat meat if offered, but she doesn't go after people food on her own.

Same with metabolism. Bobbie was hugely overweight (I posted about this before the boards went down, if anyone remembers)- at 18lbs. So while at a vet visit (I got reemed out by him, not undeservedly), he said put all three cats on scheduled feedings, 1/4 cup, twice per day. Well Socks and Tiger both lost weight instantly (and they didn't need to), so the two of them now get an additional third feeding during the day of 1/8 cup, but they will get more if they want it, as long as they eat it, and that has kept their weight up. Bobbie is still on only two feedings, and we started the diet in June, and she is now at 15.6lbs. So odd how she eats less than them, but still weights more and is so much slower to lose weight.

[babytigger]

I have a cat like that too GU.

Mog, who is the oldest......she is picky about her canned cat food, but loves people food. And will eat any meat offered. She literally begs for my food the minute she sees me sit down to eat.

Holly, who is 5 1/2 now, normal weight & Princess who is 2 1/2, normal weight...eats their cat food 2 x daily. They don't bother with people food, but will try their paw at Mogs canned food if they're able.

And then there is Sally....a big huge fat tortie. GU, isn't Bobbie a tortie as well? Sally was a lean slim thing when we first got her. She got spayed and blew up like a balloon. She's 4 1/2 now, but my goodness....she's huge weight wise. She is only fed 2 x daily as well. I don't leave food out for them, they all get fed, and then after 10 minutes, if it's not eaten, it gets put away. I don't know how this cat managed to blow up like she did. She's got a vet appt in a couple weeks. Her weight has been a constant issue ever since her spaying surgery.